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Old 06-08-2012, 05:11 PM   #21
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

I don't know. The profiles have him listed as a OG, but a career tackler at Hofstra. Draft profiles must have thought he'd be better fitted at OG.

Edit: That seems to be it. He was a tackle throughout his college career, but draft profile writers had him better fitted at OG. SI's reasoning:

"Lacks top height and better off inside at guard."
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:17 PM   #22
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

I'm loving the chance to see Colon at guard. He's been OK at tackle, in fact, he's been looking pretty good relative to the embarrassing state of our OL over the past five seasons.

This is something that should have happened long ago (at least according to folks not named Arians). But with that problem out of the way, and with the infusion of higher-upside OTs Adams and Gilbert, there's no reason to delay moving Colon to his most natural position - especially since that's our weakest link otherwise. The definition of "above the line" is rising across the OL.

I'm still shaking my head over the total awesomeness of these off-season moves.

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Originally Posted by Bayz101 View Post
Why was he listed as a G coming out of college in several draft profiles?
It was just the consensus of knowledgeable NFL personnel folks, Steelers folks included - they projected Colon at OG. But we had to get past the Arians problem first.
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:54 PM   #23
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

On the Steelers: Guard duty not a hassle for Colon

May 27, 2012

By Ray Fittipaldo / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

For years, Steelers offensive lineman Willie Colon heard the chatter about a position change. And, even though former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians repeatedly shot down the speculation, Colon knew someday he would be making the switch from right tackle to guard.

"I knew it was coming," Colon said. "You hear it enough, it's coming from somewhere."

Sure enough, after Arians was relieved of his duties and the team drafted highly regarded tackle prospect Mike Adams from Ohio State with their second pick last month, Colon received the phone call from new offensive coordinator Todd Haley.
Effective immediately, Colon was starting at left guard.

"The speculation] was always that I was a good tackle; they just figured I'd be a great guard," said Colon, a fourth-round draft pick from Hofstra in 2006. "I was never against it. All I asked was that if it happened, it happened now and not in August. They honored that."

This is the first time Colon has played guard at any level. He was strictly a tackle in high school and college and for his first six seasons as a professional. Not only is Colon moving from the right side of the line to the left, where different footwork is involved, but guards have to possess a more complete knowledge of the offense.

Tackles usually block defensive ends by themselves, or with assists from tight ends or fullbacks. They don't have to know much about the intricacies of the line's interior play.

As a guard, Colon must have an ability to read linebackers and safeties. He must know what his center and the other guard are doing on every play because they work together on combination blocks. He'll have to react much more quickly and make more split-second decisions because he is playing closer to the ball.

Colon was able to work out the kinks in the first week of organized team activities last week. After each practice, he put in extra work with veteran lineman Trai Essex, who has played tackle, guard and center in the league over the past eight years.

"Physically, it won't be a problem," Essex said of Colon. "He already is a road-grader. That's his forte. That's who he is.

"The mental part will be challenging. This is a crucial time for him, and he's taking advantage of it. When he knows what he's doing, he moves anyone out of there. He'll be an asset to our offensive line at guard."

Colon also has been leaning heavily on All-Pro center Maurkice Pouncey.

"Pouncey is a genius when it comes to the Xs and Os," Colon said. "Obviously, he's a stud on the field. I try to learn from him as fast as I can. He'll tell me different things on and off the field to help me pick it up faster. It's all about jelling. This is what OTAs are all about.

"When August comes, we're not having this conversation. We're just hitting the ground running. It's a great time for us to learn and get better."

Colon hasn't played much in recent seasons. He injured a triceps in the opener against Baltimore last year and was placed on injured reserve. In '10, he missed the entire season with an Achilles tendon injury.

Here's how much has changed in that time: The last time he played a full season, he was the young guy on a veteran line. Now. he'll be the elder statesman on a young line loaded with high draft picks.

Pouncey is entering his third season. First-round pick David DeCastro is expected to nail down the starting job at right guard in training camp. Marcus Gilbert is entering his second season after becoming the starting right tackle last season, and Adams is the likely starter at left tackle, unless Essex beats him out.

"I'm not a fan of what could be or potential," Colon said. "We have to be able to jell together and work together and do what we have to do to be a great line. We obviously have the potential, but, if we don't get it done, it doesn't mean anything."

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/...#ixzz1xEmWnwzp
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:20 PM   #24
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
DODENS GRAV = DOWN BY LAW

Same narcissistic argumentative courtroom tone, same tendency to backtrack and contradict himself when proven wrong, same tendency to keep trying to force his opinions long after being proven wrong, same tendency to claim credit for revelations made by other posters.
Please point out where I have contradicted myself and where I have been wrong. I also have no idea what you're talking about regarding claiming credit. What have I claimed credit for?

Also, what is your problem? Jeez. Did I kick your dog? I'd like to think that I'm entitled to defend myself when people accuse me of saying and doing things that I have not.

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Originally Posted by TheVet View Post
LOL Doddens!! You can't complain - you've admitted that you take multiple positions on some topicc, sometimes just for the sake of debate (as you described in your Starks switcheroo).
You mean like when you said that you convinced me suddenly that Max Starks was an underachiever, in response to which I pulled up a quote of myself calling him an underachiever weeks earlier?

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Originally Posted by TheVet View Post
We've argued the Colon topic before, and people are fairly recalling your position on the topic. The upside must be the fun of the debate, but this is the downside. If you argue different positions, you risk the loss of credibility, or the embarrassment of forgetting your prior positions. You need to accept that if you want to argue both sides.
People are claiming that I said that Colon has to be a better tackle than guard because he hasn't played guard. Yet I've never said this. Correcting somebody that inaccurately recalls my position does not count as taking two positions.

Nobody likes having words put in your mouth, and it's getting a little old. Once again, I have never, at any point, claimed that Colon can't be as good of a guard as he is a tackle. Here is every single post that I have ever made on this forum that mentions Colon. I know that nobody is going to actually bother to look, but I urge you to find me at any point saying that Colon can't be as good at guard as he is at tackle. This is the closest you'll find:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
People still think Colon would be a better guard than tackle based on absolutely no valid information whatsoever? When are people going to get over this already?
Although even I will admit that this wasn't the smartest thing to say. When I said "valid information", I should have said "proof on the field", because of course there is "valid information" about his potential at guard. But what I have been stressing is that it's just that, potential, because he's never played guard before. Do we really know that he'll be great at guard? No, of course not, because he has yet to play guard. Would I bet on him playing well? Of course.

Here's another comment I made about Colon to guard not long after he got injured last year:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
As far as the whole Colon to G crap goes, I don't see the point of moving a player that is quality at his position to a position that he's never played. Colon is a slightly above average RT. There's no need to move him. And Gilbert would have been at LT next year regardless, so moving Colon would mean that you still need a RT. With Gilbert and Colon at the tackle spots and Pouncey at center, those positions should be set for at least a few years. What is needed is two guards. I don't think Kemoeatu will survive the salary cap next year. Frankly, I hope he doesn't. If the Steelers can draft a guard in the first 3 rounds that is quality and then sign a competent free agent to take the other guard position, I would be pretty content with the o-line.
Keep in mind that this is before three major things:

1) Gilbert proving he can play right away
2) drafting DeCastro
3) drafting Adams

If these 3 things didn't happen, Colon would probably be lining up at right tackle right now with Gilbert at left tackle, which is why the team told Gilbert to prepare to play left tackle when the season ended. Being able to move Colon turned into a luxury that they previously did not have, because for years, they only had two players that were even capable of playing tackle, namely Starks and Colon. However, the above statement does not mean that I have ever been averse to Colon moving to guard; just that before this year, it wasn't the team's best option. Now it is, and now they've done it.

Even I speculated about Colon moving to guard right before this year's draft:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
Bouchette says he was told the Steelers are not as high on him [Cordy Glenn] as he previously thought. I wonder if they see him as a true guard, and if they mean for him to play tackle, does that mean they plan on moving Gilbert or Colon to guard?
I even said right after the draft that Colon moving to guard would be the best option long-term for the team:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
If they are true to their claim that it is their desire to put the best 5 players on the field, then Adams might be playing RT by the end of the year, with Colon moving to G. We'll see what happens in training camp though.
And here's what I said right after the move to guard was made public:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
Indeed, and this is exactly in line with what they said right after the draft. But I'm still quite surprised. Excited, but very, very surprised. I don't think anybody that really understands the way this organization typically works actually predicted that this would happen this season, because it's certainly not in line with their modus operandi.
Here is more CAUTIOUS OPTIMISM about Colon's move:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
Willie Colon moving to both a new position and the other side of the field will of course raise question marks, but again, we have to keep in mind that the overall quality of play from the LG spot in recent years has not been particularly great to begin with. Colon is easily the most physically gifted player to fill the spot since Faneca left, however, and he is already a veteran of the line, and has known for a month already of the change, so the transition should not be overly bumpy.
And on that note, here's a bonus just for TheVet: me ripping the o-line talent back in September:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
It's pretty obvious that the Steeler o-line talent is among the worst, though it's improving, especially when Colon is in the lineup, which, unfortunately, for a second straight year, he won't be.
Now, where has my position changed? The only things that I've disagreed with anybody with are:

1) Believing that Colon is above average at right tackle.
2) Believing that moving Colon before this year would have made the line worse because Colon is an above average RT and the dropoff at RT would have been greater than the improvement at G.
3) Believing that Colon's height and arm length were not much of a hindrance for him at RT.

Anybody can feel free to disagree with me on those things, but please don't accuse me of backpedaling when I have not. I've always been a big fan of Willie Colon, more than most. I've also felt that he shouldn't be moved to guard until this year because, as I said above, I believe the line would have been worse with Essex or Hills at RT. I also believe that, with the talent on the line now, it was smart to move him to guard. But I also believe that, because he's new to the position and the left side of the field, and because he was already damn good at tackle, that it would not be smart to be so sure we will see a significant improvement from him this year. Might he be better at guard than tackle? Yeah. Will he be? I don't know, and neither does anybody else. It's all projection right now, so for now I merely say that he should be about as good a guard as tackle. I don't think he is suddenly going to be named to the Pro Bowl.

Also, just for the record. I do admit when I'm proven wrong. tony hipchest corrected me when I said that Flozell Adams was not always partially deaf and I owned up to it.

Last edited by Steelersfan87; 06-08-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:17 PM   #25
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodens Grav View Post
Please point out where I have contradicted myself and where I have been wrong. I also have no idea what you're talking about regarding claiming credit. What have I claimed credit for?

Also, what is your problem? Jeez. Did I kick your dog? I'd like to think that I'm entitled to defend myself when people accuse me of saying and doing things that I have not.



You mean like when you said that you convinced me suddenly that Max Starks was an underachiever, in response to which I pulled up a quote of myself calling him an underachiever weeks earlier?



People are claiming that I said that Colon has to be a better tackle than guard because he hasn't played guard. Yet I've never said this. Correcting somebody that inaccurately recalls my position does not count as taking two positions.

Nobody likes having words put in your mouth, and it's getting a little old. Once again, I have never, at any point, claimed that Colon can't be as good of a guard as he is a tackle. Here is every single post that I have ever made on this forum that mentions Colon. I know that nobody is going to actually bother to look, but I urge you to find me at any point saying that Colon can't be as good at guard as he is at tackle. This is the closest you'll find:



Although even I will admit that this wasn't the smartest thing to say. When I said "valid information", I should have said "proof on the field", because of course there is "valid information" about his potential at guard. But what I have been stressing is that it's just that, potential, because he's never played guard before. Do we really know that he'll be great at guard? No, of course not, because he has yet to play guard. Would I bet on him playing well? Of course.

Here's another comment I made about Colon to guard not long after he got injured last year:



Keep in mind that this is before three major things:

1) Gilbert proving he can play right away
2) drafting DeCastro
3) drafting Adams

If these 3 things didn't happen, Colon would probably be lining up at right tackle right now with Gilbert at left tackle, which is why the team told Gilbert to prepare to play left tackle when the season ended. Being able to move Colon turned into a luxury that they previously did not have, because for years, they only had two players that were even capable of playing tackle, namely Starks and Colon. However, the above statement does not mean that I have ever been averse to Colon moving to guard; just that before this year, it wasn't the team's best option. Now it is, and now they've done it.

Even I speculated about Colon moving to guard right before this year's draft:




I even said right after the draft that Colon moving to guard would be the best option long-term for the team:




And here's what I said right after the move to guard was made public:




Here is more CAUTIOUS OPTIMISM about Colon's move:



And on that note, here's a bonus just for TheVet: me ripping the o-line talent back in September:



Now, where has my position changed? The only things that I've disagreed with anybody with are:

1) Believing that Colon is above average at right tackle.
2) Believing that moving Colon before this year would have made the line worse because Colon is an above average RT and the dropoff at RT would have been greater than the improvement at G.
3) Believing that Colon's height and arm length were not much of a hindrance for him at RT.

Anybody can feel free to disagree with me on those things, but please don't accuse me of backpedaling when I have not. I've always been a big fan of Willie Colon, more than most. I've also felt that he shouldn't be moved to guard until this year because, as I said above, I believe the line would have been worse with Essex or Hills at RT. I also believe that, with the talent on the line now, it was smart to move him to guard. But I also believe that, because he's new to the position and the left side of the field, and because he was already damn good at tackle, that it would not be smart to be so sure we will see a significant improvement from him this year. Might he be better at guard than tackle? Yeah. Will he be? I don't know, and neither does anybody else. It's all projection right now, so for now I merely say that he should be about as good a guard as tackle. I don't think he is suddenly going to be named to the Pro Bowl.

Also, just for the record. I do admit when I'm proven wrong. tony hipchest corrected me when I said that Flozell Adams was not always partially deaf and I owned up to it.

wow, that must have taken you all day to post...
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:57 PM   #26
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

Any second it took to post is too long. I shouldn't have to defend myself against ridiculous accusations about taking both sides of the same argument.

Also, another reason to be skeptical of Colon making the Pro Bowl in 2012 as a guard: He's played one game in two years. It's difficult to know what to expect from him because of that. Not just whether he'll be at game speed, but whether he'll have the requisite endurance to finish out the season and whether he'll be more prone to injury (or re-injury). There are plenty of reasons to temper your expectations for Colon this year. Enough to make it silly to attack somebody if they don't believe he HAS to be better at guard because he's 6'3".

On the other hand, there are factors extraneous to Colon that put him in a position to succeed that may FORCE him to be better, even if he actually hasn't become better, like 1) surrounding him with better talent, 2) having the team owner mandate that the QB get rid of the ball faster and throw it away more often (which will improve not only the 'stats', but the public impressions of ALL of the linemen), and 3) hiring a new offensive coordinator that early reports indicate will be more balanced, less predictable, and focus less on plays that take a while to develop.
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Old 06-09-2012, 09:44 AM   #27
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

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It was just the consensus of knowledgeable NFL personnel folks, Steelers folks included - they projected Colon at OG. But we had to get past the Arians problem first.
Exactly. Its just like how everybody had Kendall Simmons projected to guard in the NFL draft, even though he played OT at Auburn. Same with Tony Bergstrom from Utah this year, or Amini Silatolu, Carl Nicks, Herman Johnson-LSU, etc.
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Old 06-09-2012, 12:53 PM   #28
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

What everyone needs to remembr is that at different levels, player's physical assets & requirements change.

A RB in HS is often converted into a WR in college. Heck, sometimes HS RBs are converted into CBs.

And that same type of "switch" occurs from college to pros. Joey the Mouth was a DE in college, but switched to OLB (I know that the positions are extremely similar, but there is a tad of a switch that occurs). Many 4-3 college DTs become 3-4 DEs (again, very similar positions).

The best example that I can think of is Carnell Lake switching from LB to SS.

SUMMATION:
Whether or not The Colon EVER played OG or not, many NFL scouts have "projected" him as an OG. And now, he is playing in the "correct" position for his physical attributes. As in: I am if the opinion that he'll flourish as an OG. .
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:11 PM   #29
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Default Re: Steelers Coaches line up work for absent linemen.

To clarify:
When I am talking about "physical attributes" I am referring to lateral movement, blocking strength, ability to pull, & straight line speed (height & arm length are a distant second).

The Colon does not have great lateral movement (shifting sideways, to get in front of defenders)...which is needed for playing OT.

What The Colon does really well is stonewalling a blocker (blocking strength). Once he gets his hands on them, he stops them.

At RT, he couldn't sidle fast enough to get in front of defenders; hence, he "had" to false start (in order to get a jump on the defenders). As an OG, all he has to do is stand still & block (which he does really well).

Oh, and from what I've seen in his run blocking, he has shown promise at pulling & straight line speed/straight line blocking.

And, he is short. LOL
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:29 PM   #30
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Exactly. Its just like how everybody had Kendall Simmons projected to guard in the NFL draft, even though he played OT at Auburn. Same with Tony Bergstrom from Utah this year, or Amini Silatolu, Carl Nicks, Herman Johnson-LSU, etc.
I don't think it's this simple. I think Colon's first opportunity to play was when Starks went down, so that's where they put him, and then he just never lost the job. Starks' spot was also easily the weakest link on a line that included 3 Pro Bowlers in Smith, Faneca, Hartings, and a very solid Simmons. Let's face it, he wasn't going to replace any of those guys.

Also, Colon was drafted before Arians was the head coach, and filled in for Starks at RT, again, before Arians was the head coach. I have a hard time believing that Arians had monolithic control over where linemen were to be played; that Larry Zierlein and Sean Kugler couldn't move guys around if they wanted to. As I've previously said, maybe the coaching staff believed that they didn't have anybody else that could play right tackle until Marcus Gilbert proved himself last year (Adams wasn't an option last year because of his $5 million salary; he had to be cut), so they couldn't move Colon if they wanted to.

But "Steelers folks" didn't project him as a guard...read his press conference, it's been posted several times already. They projected him as both a guard and a tackle, as they did with Marcus Gilbert last year. Tony Hills also ended up being both a guard and a tackle, as did Trai Essex. They may eventually try to turn Ramon Foster into a guard/tackle hybrid too now.
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