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Old 09-26-2012, 08:40 PM   #21
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

I HAVE to believe curtain is either being factitious, or just doesn't understand the capology terminology.
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:44 PM   #22
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

As much as I love AB, it's going to kill me to see Wallace going to another team. If I'm understanding tony correctly we have a chance at paying Wallace what he's worth?
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:48 PM   #23
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

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As much as I love AB, it's going to kill me to see Wallace going to another team. If I'm understanding tony correctly we have a chance at paying Wallace what he's worth?
we definitely have a chance. but it wont come w/o consequences.

for anyone really interested in the capology and actually studying it, dave of steelersdepot is about the best research you will find on the net.

back in like 2006 the postgazette used to run cap and contract numbers on what basically was a spreadsheet that anyone could study, but that type of information is like guarded trade secrets nowadays (understandably so when so many teams fail managing the cap while teams like the steelers have mastered it).

here are the latest numbers (which are probably the closest to accurate as one will find) and a good summation of the situation going into next year-

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/08...cap-situation/
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Old 09-26-2012, 08:56 PM   #24
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

I used to use this: http://www.spotrac.com/
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Old 09-26-2012, 09:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
we definitely have a chance. but it wont come w/o consequences.

for anyone really interested in the capology and actually studying it, dave of steelersdepot is about the best research you will find on the net.

back in like 2006 the postgazette used to run cap and contract numbers on what basically was a spreadsheet that anyone could study, but that type of information is like guarded trade secrets nowadays (understandably so when so many teams fail managing the cap while teams like the steelers have mastered it).

here are the latest numbers (which are probably the closest to accurate as one will find) and a good summation of the situation going into next year-

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2012/08...cap-situation/
This was a great read, thanks. Sounds easy on paper.
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Old 09-26-2012, 11:47 PM   #26
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

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im not saying they wont potentially live up to their contracts, just pointing out where some mega savings can be had.

i'll add mendenhall in there as well.... and miller.

lets face it, our running game will suck with or w/o pouncey and we will give up just as many sacks (he is awesome and one of the best but we've done just the same with or without him).

same with wallace. with 9-10 extra mil a year, we can spend money elsewhere and try to find someone to compliment brown and sanders in the draft.

did i mention sanders is a free agent as well?

when studying capology, you have to look at EVERY option seriously... thats just how the biz is and how the best in the biz (like o. kahn) approach it.
Tony, I normally agree with you... about 98.5% agreement. But, I completely disagree on this topic.

OL has the key to football. Well, the QB is the key... but, the OL prevents the defenders from getting to the QB. Thus, they are the key by proxy.

SuperBowl XLV can be said (by some) to have been "turned", when a Packer DL pushed Doug Legursky back into BB, forcing a pick-six.

SuperBowl XLIII had a similar play, where Darnell Dockett pushed Justin Hartwig back into BB.

When Pouncey is in, the pocket is solid up the middle.

But, as great as he is, Pouncey can not do it on his own. He needs at least two other good players around him.

DD will help this OL get better. Him next to Pouncey WILL be special. Not only will it protect BB, it will make holes for ANY running back. Sure, he wasn't stellar as a rookie in the pre-season... but, he was a rookie... in the pre-season. Faneca didn't even start until mid-way through his rookie year.

The Colon is a bitter disappointment (to me). I thought that he'd flourish as an OG. Alas, he is a penalty machine. And, honestly, Kemo seemed to block better (with the same amount of penalties). I can only hope that The Colon gets better.

Gilbert (and Adams and Beachum) give the Steelers a solid RT (& two capable back-ups, along with the interior back-ups: Legursky & Foster).

The glaring hole is at LT. Starks is rock-solid, but he has been too injured to last much longer. I was hoping that the future was Adams, but Beachum seems to be ahead of him on the depth chart (which is not a good sign for Adams). Maybe Gilbert switches over... nah, I say leap him at RT. Anyway, that means that the key to helping Pouncey, which is the key to helping BB, is a LT. I really like Barrett Jones. Anyway...

Where was I... (I got lost in a tangent)...

I totally understand the cap. I know that sometimes, tough devisions have to be made. But, on the flip side, Omar Kahn is great at working the cap, in order to keep players around. The best example: look at Ike Taylor's contract(s).

Money invested in Pouncey helps BB. It helps the WRs get open (via the DL not being able to get to BB for 7 seconds), It helps the RBs (via holes). I am all for spending money on the OL.

Maybe the OL hasn't been much better with or without Pouncey... (I think it has indeed been better: look at those aforementioned SuperBowls)... but, again, one O-lineman cannot take on the entire DL.

Pouncey is one cog.
DD is the second cog.
It is a work in progress... that I would like to see continue to develop.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:17 AM   #27
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

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Tony, I normally agree with you... about 98.5% agreement. But, I completely disagree on this topic.

OL has the key to football. Well, the QB is the key... but, the OL prevents the defenders from getting to the QB. Thus, they are the key by proxy.

.
thats fine. ive already stated that it all starts up front with tho-line.

a legitimate capology discussion simply cannot be summed up with or by a single comment.

it is too complex with WAY too many moving parts. its a zero sum game. if you give to the offense you take from the defense and vice versa.

dont get me wrong... pouncey is great. next in line to webster and dawson which probably means he will be paid like a top notch LT just like his draft position suggests he should.

he may even be as great to the steelers o-line as cortez kennedy was to seattles d-line. but from a capologists point of view, what exactly did that get seattle?

i understand why people reading this thread will think i am advocating letting pouncey go, when reality is i am certain he will be kept for the long haul and approve that move.

it will come at a cost though. if all the high picks we have spent on DL and mid round picks on CBs hold up, we should be fine.

the cap should go up but its been stagnant going on 4 years and we see how the league owners pinch pennies when it comes to the refs.

them damn 47%ers always looking for handouts .
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:08 PM   #28
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest View Post
thats fine. ive already stated that it all starts up front with tho-line.

a legitimate capology discussion simply cannot be summed up with or by a single comment.

it is too complex with WAY too many moving parts. its a zero sum game. if you give to the offense you take from the defense and vice versa.

dont get me wrong... pouncey is great. next in line to webster and dawson which probably means he will be paid like a top notch LT just like his draft position suggests he should.

he may even be as great to the steelers o-line as cortez kennedy was to seattles d-line. but from a capologists point of view, what exactly did that get seattle?

i understand why people reading this thread will think i am advocating letting pouncey go, when reality is i am certain he will be kept for the long haul and approve that move.

it will come at a cost though. if all the high picks we have spent on DL and mid round picks on CBs hold up, we should be fine.

the cap should go up but its been stagnant going on 4 years and we see how the league owners pinch pennies when it comes to the refs.

them damn 47%ers always looking for handouts .
1. Of course, if money is given to one player, other players will need to be cut (or get less money). This is basic. I think that we all understand & agree with that.

2. I created a post, a few months ago, about focusing most of the money on the offensive players (BB, Wallace, AB, Pouncey, DD, Heath) and using the majority of the draft picks on defense. I won't go into details (again), but basically, the current talent resides mostly on the offense. Thus, I say: pay'em, keep'em, and flourish on offense (while filling holes on defense with young, cheap draftees).

3. Cortez Kennedy might have been overpaid... but, there are 21 other starters. Honestly, I don't think that his contract ate up money for the entire rest of the starters (i.e. all of the other 21 players). Truthfully, maybe he ate up the contracts for 2 other guys... leaving plenty of money for one or two other great players to be signed. Alas, for SEA, they had other problems.

For example, the Seahawks drafted around 16th for many, many years: not good enough to draft a difference maker, but not low enough to be a play-off team. It was a horrible, horrible place to be stuck: mediocrity.

4. Allow me to offer a couple of thoughts about the O-line... and I think that I am preaching to the choir, but just to be sure...

The DAL O-line from the early 90s. That was a bunch of brutes, who opened up huuuge holes for Emmit. That got them three SuperBowls.

Likewise, the Hogs (ie the WASH O-line) got them three SuperBowls.

RE-CAP:
Simply, I am advocating that the money be spent on O-line... as well as on other offensive players.

Q: At what cost?
A: Defensive players who are "avergae." Obviously, players of the ilk of Troy or Greg Lloyd would be retained (not all of the cap would go to offense), but players who are average (Keenan Lewis), would be shown the door, to be repalced by younger, cheaper draftees (Cortez Allen).

On final question...
Are we in the 53% or the 47%?
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

I'm all for paying the o-line. we have an elite franchise QB, and we need him on his feet in order to win. This team will get as far as ben takes us, so a strong o-line is the most critical piece of the puzzle.

These aren't your grandpa's steelers, I think we are making the transition from a defensive team to a high powered offense with average defense. I'm fine with that if it wins us games.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:58 PM   #30
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Default Re: How Much Money will be saved next year.

Here are some average/old/ineffective players who I'd cut soon :: followed by their young, cheaper replacement.

Casey the Hutt :: McClendon & Ta'amu

Keisel :: Heyward

Foote :: Spence

Harrison :: (draft pick)

[These guys will need to be replaced, in a year or two.]

Troy :: (draft pick)

Clark :: (draft pick)

Ike :: (Cortez Allen)

[I'd allow Lewis to leave, as opposed to paying him. Same goes with Hood.]

Keenan Lewis :: (draft draft pick... or, maybe Curtis Brown)

Hood :: (draft pick... Ta'amu...)
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