Larry Foote Says Players Don’t Trust LeBeau

[Atlanta Dan]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

My guess is either LeBeau's tenure as DC is coming to an end, or Butler got tricked by the front office.

Given that when Tomlin was hired it apparently was a condition that he kept Coach LeBeau, LeBeau will leave on his own terms.

I think he knows it is time and with some more of his crew leaving after this season (Hampton, Harrison, probably Keisel) it itime to say goodbye

IMO he would have retired after the 2010 season if the Steelers had beaten Green By

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by FanSince72

Well I haven't trusted this system for the last few years.

It's stale, it's old, it's been solved by every team in the league and it's being mailed in.

.

unFREAKINGbeleivable

Originally Posted by FanSince72

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But I think the "tip-toeing" aspect is more likely.
I don't believe that LeBeau is so much being stubborn as he is simply set in his ways.
At 75 years of age and with about 50 years of pro football under his belt, I think he just doesn't have the desire to really dig down and reinvent this defense to compete in today's NFL. It's not that he doesn't want to. I just think he realizes just how much time and effort that would take and I wonder if he can muster the energy to dedicate himself to something like that.

Picture yourself at 75 after a very long and storied career. You're looking at basically overhauling the entire defense and you know that in reality it will take more than one training camp to do that. Would you have the drive and energy for that?
Or would you be more content to leave things as they are and look more towards retirement than reinvention?

.

*sniffle* [wiping tears away]

thats a beautiful story, man. did you come up with that riding off into the sunset fairy tale all by yourself?

i might actually buy into your wildly speculative and make believe theory if it want 100% false and disputed by about every single steelers defensive player who freely admits that lebeau overhauls the defense every off season and intruduces about 15-20% of new plays EVERY YEAR in camp.

i really hope people do some research on the matter.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ics-zone-blitz

Fire zones are essentially three-deep coverages, and offenses have known how to attack three-deep coverages for years. There are two common methods of doing so. The first is sending four receivers vertical, with the idea being that three deep defenders shouldn't be able to play four deep receivers. The second is sending the outside receiver vertical while the tight end or slot runs a deep out or a curl/flat combination. The pattern-match fire zone therefore is specifically designed to handle these tactics. Broadly speaking, these "SCF/Seam" or "Bronco" defenders will play man-to-man on the second receiver from the sideline so long as he runs vertically down the seam or runs a deep out of any kind. If the receiver breaks hard to the inside, the Bronco defender passes him off to the inside defenders and looks for another receiver coming through his zone.

"SCF" and "Seam" are the two most common methods of teaching this technique. "SCF" stands for Seam-Curl-Flat, and literally tells the defender the order of his priorities: Watch the seam, drop to the curl area, and let the quarterback's throw take you to the flat. The SCF technique is played from inside to out.

The "Seam" technique, which is Dick LeBeau's now-preferred method, works much the same way as SCF, only from the outside in. The theory is that in the NFL, if the defender isn't aligned to the outside, the quarterbacks are so good that they will hit the out-breaking routes all day. The "Seam" technique also has implications for how and when defenders will switch off certain receivers, but, just like a matchup zone in basketball, more important than the scheme is the communication and discipline used to make it go.

The upshot of pattern-match zone blitzes is that when executed correctly, they are the best of all possible worlds: They're attacking, multi-defender blitzes in which the defense plays zone coverage against pass patterns designed to beat man-to-man coverage against pass patterns — all verticals — designed to defeat zones.

farrior, clark and polamalu are/were the communicators....

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

unFREAKINGbeleivable


*sniffle* [wiping tears away]

thats a beautiful story, man. did you come up with that riding off into the sunset fairy tale all by yourself?

i might actually buy into your wildly speculative and make believe theory if it want 100% false and disputed by about every single steelers defensive player who freely admits that lebeau overhauls the defense every off season and intruduces about 15-20% of new plays EVERY YEAR in camp.

i really hope people do some research on the matter.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...ics-zone-blitz



farrior, clark and polamalu are/were the communicators....

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion.

And of course you know what they say about opinions...

Are you still going to be saying the same things when LeBeau has to blow into a tube to make his wheelchair move up and down the sidelines? Because it sounds as if you're one of those folks who thinks he should be here until they can't detect a pulse.

It's funny that you should use 15 to 20% as a figure because that's about how much I feel that LeBeau's NUMBER ONE DEFENSE has dropped off in each of the last three years or so.

(could be those new plays)

[tony hipchest]

i would hardly call knowledge of the playbook "my opinion"

http://blitzology.blogspot.com/2010/04/seam-drop.html

(complete with diagrams and actual playbook from 10 yrs ago)

The "Seam" drop I am referring to is technique of the player who is dropping over the #2 receiver in a 3 under 3 deep fire zone coverage. I have also heard this drop called Scif, Bronco, and Deuce. Regardless of the name, the execution of this technique has a direct correlation to the effectiveness of a team's fire zone pressure package.
The following is a breakdown of the Seam drop that is explained in Dick Lebeau's playbook from the 2002 Cincinnati Bengals. To begin Lebeau defines Seam on page 20 of the .pdf in the Secondary Coverage Terms section of the playbook as "Outside in technique on #2. Must carry vertically or to the flat. (Fire Zone Term)". Later Lebeau gives 3 coaching points for the seam drop in the Fire Zone Coverage Rules section of the playbook on page 144 of the .pdf.

"SEAM TECHNIQUE"

COLLISION FROM OUTSIDE - IN
CARRY ANY SEAM ROUTE UPFIELD UNTIL RECEIVER ATTEMPTS TO CROSS YOUR FACE FROM INSIDE OUT (Exception: Slash Release)
ALWAYS COME OFF ON #3 RECEIVER CROSSING YOUR FACE TO FLAT

just as i am entitled to MY opinion, everyone else here is entitled to an educated opinion as well.

in just 3 games we have already seen the new "penny" defense, FACT "big snackle" [as i call it] (NT stays in for big nickle packages), FACT and i am certain there were sub-packages of big nickle utilizing sean spence instead of 3 safeties.

but yeah, lebeau is too lazy and set in his ways to adapt.

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

i would hardly call knowledge of the playbook "my opinion"

http://blitzology.blogspot.com/2010/04/seam-drop.html

(complete with diagrams and actual playbook from 10 yrs ago)



just as i am entitled to MY opinion, everyone else here is entitled to an educated opinion as well.

in just 3 games we have already seen the new "penny" defense, FACT "big snackle" [as i call it] (NT stays in for big nickle packages), FACT and i am certain there were sub-packages of big nickle utilizing sean spence instead of 3 safeties.

but yeah, lebeau is too lazy and set in his ways to adapt.

Are you trying to convince me, or convince yourself?

Tell you what; when LeBeau can come up with something that can get a team off the field when they're facing 3rd and 12 instead of allowing them an open receiver to whom even I could complete a pass, then I'll believe that he's still got it.

But for now, I'm still waiting...

[tony hipchest]

i dont think i need to convince anyone that the grass is green, the sky is blue, and the assertion that lebeau is mailing it in, is assinine.

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

i dont think i need to convince anyone that the grass is green, the sky is blue, and the assertion that lebeau is mailing it in, is assinine.

And you also don't have to convince anyone that denial ain't just a river in Egypt either.

[tony hipchest]

Originally Posted by FanSince72

And you also don't have to convince anyone that denial ain't just a river in Egypt either.

im not the one pretending 31 teams have figured out lebeaus defense and is suddenly "mailing" it in simply because the steelers have lost a total of 46 games in the past 9 seasons that he has been coordinator.

feel free to "deny" you are out of touch with reality all you want.

i get it... its hard to accept that dozens of players and several handfulls of coaches and FO personnel know more as fact, than what you "think" you know.

Well I haven't trusted this system for the last few years.

It's stale, it's old, it's been solved by every team in the league

thats all.

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by tony hipchest

im not the one pretending 31 teams have figured out lebeaus defense and is suddenly "mailing" it in simply because the steelers have lost a total of 46 games in the past 9 seasons that he has been coordinator.

.

It's interesting that you would quote wins and losses in defense of LeBeau.

The reason I say that is because when we had another coordinator who won 55 regular-season games, 5 post-season games, posted five straight winning seasons, went to 2 Super Bowls and won 1 of them, YOU were leading the charge to have him hanged in Market Square.

It's ironic that LeBeau can be defended based upon "W's" while Arians - with even more "W's" in a career that was four years shorter than LeBeau's gets run out of town on a rail.



Fascinating.


But hey, what do I know right?

[tony hipchest]

right.

to put lebeau and arians on equal levels when it comes to coaching talent is all the proof anyone should need to see that you are wrong.

...imo of course