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Old 10-20-2012, 07:56 AM   #41
Rockonsteel
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

For the most part, Haley has improved the offense. Not leaps and bounds, but improvement nonetheless. Points are up, if only slightly(could be better if not for poor execution and dumb penalties). Sacks are down significantly. Ben's taking less hits. Heath and RBs involved in passing game. So, for the most part he's been ok. I was hoping for more than ok. I do have a couple of qualms with the Haley way.

First, he has taken all the air out of the ball. We went from BA dropping back 7 steps on every play, to 6 yd. patterns on every play. I don't understand why we can't find a guy who knows how to mix it up, instead of one extreme or the other. The short, quick passing game is fine, but we have the weapons to air it out, so that needs to be mixed in with the dink and dunk stuff.

Second, he hasn't yet figured out creative ways to gets Rainey in space. Everytime he comes in the game, it's either a toss sweep from singleback formation or a telegraphed swing pass in the flat that the defense is waiting for. It seems a bit predictable. Just doesn't seem to be much creativity involved in trying to get him the ball in space/mismatch situations.

And lastly, he seems to be trying to force the run. A lot of first down run calls, is part of what stagnates this offense. A few more first down passes, play action and screens thrown into the mix, on first down, would make this offense much more explosive. Running on first downs, sets up constant 2nd and 8 or 9, which is part of the reason our T.O.P. is so high. Not because we control the clock with the run game, but because we reduce our YPP when we run the ball, meaning we need more plays to score than a lot of other teams.

Don't get me wrong, I was the first one calling for BA's head, and was glad to see him go. I just wish Haley would loosen up the reigns and let it fly a bit more. We have the horses to do that. I'm sure Ben feels the same way.

Rockon
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:19 AM   #42
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

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Originally Posted by ricardisimo View Post
FanSince has already established in numerous threads that his opinion is reality, everything else is a distraction.
No, that's not true.

That's actually the problem with the Arians-bashers; they see him as they want to see him regardless of the fact that his record is quite good.

See, that's the problem with statistics; they don't predict anything, they just record what's already happened and in that sense, the statistics show that Arians did a pretty good job.
Under Arians, we had five winning seasons in a row -- four of them with double-digit wins; we went to 2 Super Bowls and won one of them.
Also, in the five years under BA, the offense averaged 22.6 ppg. (The NFL average for the same years was just 21.8 ppg)

Not too shabby.
Maybe not HOF numbers, but he certainly didn't suck.

Is Haley "The Guy"?

It's way too soon to tell because there's no body of work to review yet (no statistics).

When Haley gets some years under his belt, then he can be measured against Arians in terms of overall success. Until then it's impossible to say. He's only been on the sidelines for five games so it would be foolish to try to determine whether or not he's better or worse than Arians.

I've seen some things this year that seem promising but overall I see an offense that's operating far below its potential and if the OC can be blamed for such things, then Haley should have to be asked why this is so.
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Old 10-21-2012, 07:44 AM   #43
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

Oh my - this column in the Trib-Review today has some quotes from Ben that do appear to indicate some issues with Haley

Ben Roethlisberger seemed surprised when reporters crowded his locker Friday, seeking word on his heavily taped right ankle.

Roethlisberger had practiced without issue. He didn’t think the ankle was a big deal. Early in a two-minute drill with his inquisitors, he addressed a much-bigger deal: The Steelers’ chronic inability to roll up lofty point totals....

Things got more interesting when the crowd dispersed. I asked Roethlisberger if the offense has much room for “expansion.” As in more big plays.

“Haley’s offense is not a big-play offense,” he said. “It’s kind of a dink-and-dunk offense.”

Hmmm. That was the first time I’d heard Roethlisberger use the d-and-d phrase. When others had, he’d brushed it aside.

Our next exchange was more eye-opening.

Me: “Is there room for more quick strikes?”

Ben: “We did that last week (82-yard pass to Mike Wallace).”

Me: “Right, but you never went back to it.”

Ben: “There’s a guy calling the plays. That’s on him.”

That’s a quote sure to be repeated, but I can tell you Roethlisberger did not utter it with any venom. And he quickly elaborated. Or backtracked. I’m not sure which.

“Sometimes, we’ll call something long, and it’s just not there,” he said. “For us, the big thing is that when we get into the red zone, we don’t get complicated. We need to finish drives.”
...

Joe Starkey then proceeds to note the offense this year is as mediocre as it was under BA

One way or another, the Steelers have to score more. Starting in Cincinnati. My sense is that removing Ben’s shackles would be a start. But maybe it’s finding a run game. Or maybe the rinky-dink method will bore the Bengals to death.

Did you know that, since the beginning of the 2010 season, the Steelers have cracked the 30-point barrier seven times?

For context, the Mark Sanchez-led Jets have done it 10 times.


The bugaboos of the Bruce Arians offense — which I thought was ready to explode before Roethlisberger’s injury last season — remain unfixed: The Steelers still don’t score enough (17th in the league), convert in the red zone (18th in touchdown percentage) or run with consistency (32nd in pertinent categories)....

The Steelers possess the rarest of commodities: a Hall of Fame quarterback in his prime. They have provided him with a multitude of weapons. It really is time to score points.


http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...#axzz29sACIB3E

IMO this team is going to come unglued if it loses tonight
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:34 AM   #44
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

Joe Snarkey [sic] is always digging for an angle. The offense needs to pick it up after last week's performance, but if the defense is going to allow the Oakland's and Tennessee's of the league to chew them up, perhaps Joe can redirect some of his venom to that side of the ball, as well.
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Old 10-21-2012, 08:49 AM   #45
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

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Joe Snarkey [sic] is always digging for an angle. The offense needs to pick it up after last week's performance, but if the defense is going to allow the Oakland's and Tennessee's of the league to chew them up, perhaps Joe can redirect some of his venom to that side of the ball, as well.
yes but that doesnt change the fact we dont score enough and the offense isnt good enough in the new nfl. 17th in the league proves that
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Old 10-21-2012, 09:22 AM   #46
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

Dink-and-dunk is okay in some situations, but when you have a QB with a big-time arm and three speedy receivers you need to rip that ball downfield a little more often than they have been doing. It was assumed that as long as the offense possessed the ball for long periods of time the defense would be really good because it would be well-rested. That assumption has turned out to be very wrong. The Steelers offense needs a new philosophy: score as quick as possible and as often as possible - don't be so focused on time of possession. The best way to take pressure off of a defense is to score more points.
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Old 10-21-2012, 10:05 AM   #47
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

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Dink-and-dunk is okay in some situations, but when you have a QB with a big-time arm and three speedy receivers you need to rip that ball downfield a little more often than they have been doing. It was assumed that as long as the offense possessed the ball for long periods of time the defense would be really good because it would be well-rested. That assumption has turned out to be very wrong. The Steelers offense needs a new philosophy: score as quick as possible and as often as possible - don't be so focused on time of possession. The best way to take pressure off of a defense is to score more points.
Or, continue to maintain time of possession, but FINISH drives: TDs instead if FGs.

Also, closing out games (converting that "final" third down, so that PITT's defense doesn't even have a chance to mess things up) would be nice.
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:34 AM   #48
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

Arians or Haley aside, when an average at best QB (Sanchez) is scoring more over time over a HOF with a stable of weapons with 2 pro bowl receivers and the most underrated tight end in the league - that pisses me off more than anything
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Old 10-21-2012, 11:57 AM   #49
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

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Or, continue to maintain time of possession, but FINISH drives: TDs instead if FGs.

Also, closing out games (converting that "final" third down, so that PITT's defense doesn't even have a chance to mess things up) would be nice.
Not at the expense of underusing the deep pass.
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Old 10-21-2012, 12:24 PM   #50
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Default Re: How Todd Haley and Big Ben are getting along...

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Not at the expense of underusing the deep pass.
Wasn't saying that they shouldn't use the deep pass. I'm saying that if I had to choose one thing for Haley to alter, it'd be to finish drives.

The team can still mix in deep passes... which can be solved by, well, simply passing deep more than once per game. (I agree: I'd like to see more.) But, I see the lack of finishing drives as the "main problem" right now.

Make sense?
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