Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2013 Goal: $400.00 - To Date: $00.00 (00.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Steelers Football > Pittsburgh Steelers


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Steelers - Bills Bills
August 16th, 2014, 7:30pmET

CBS
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-04-2013, 09:05 AM   #111
VaDave
Team President
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 2,363
Gender: Male
Member Number: 479
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,621 Times in 919 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

I disagree. He was a system corner at best and will suffer the same fate as McFadden and Gay when exposed.

BTW, no Lewis hate here. Why in heck would I hate the kid? He was serviceable, nothing more. The likely hood of him being a starter in 2013 with the Steelers however was zilch, and therefore not worth to us what he got on the open market. That is a fact.

Frankly, I'm happy for him. He deserved getting paid for the progress he made. But remember, it was a HUGE step up for him last year. The prior two were, shall we say, less than stellar?

And you can book it, he will be on the market in two years, unless he becomes a # 1 shutdown corner. I don't know of any experts that are predicting that anytime soon,.... well, other than those that post here.....
VaDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 09:51 AM   #112
steelfury02
Wing Kong Exchange - CEO
Supporter
 
steelfury02's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,337
Member Number: 6076
Thanks: 4,010
Thanked 3,769 Times in 1,803 Posts
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

what the eff is a shutdown corner anyways? I hate that - maybe even as much as I hate the term "elite QB"

Its an easy way for people's opinions to be inserted as fact - "he's one of the best CBs in the game" - your opinion

I would only consider a dozen or so CBs in the history of the game to be "the best ever" Darelle Revis certainly has been exposed - and he's supposed to be the best "shutdown corner" in the game

especially with the offense having a larger advantage with every passing season - I really don't believe in the "shutdown corner"

If shutdown means you are shutting #1 receivers down week in and week out, Ike Taylor did that for a 4 or 5 year stretch - getting INT's means your a "ball hawk" so I get tired of INTs being included - sure, it helps a ton - but, there are diff types of corners.

Lewis deserves solid money no doubt but not what he was asking from our Steelers
__________________

Look into my eyes
SF Haters
steelfury02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 11:20 AM   #113
VaDave
Team President
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 2,363
Gender: Male
Member Number: 479
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,621 Times in 919 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
what the eff is a shutdown corner anyways? I hate that - maybe even as much as I hate the term "elite QB"

Its an easy way for people's opinions to be inserted as fact - "he's one of the best CBs in the game" - your opinion

I would only consider a dozen or so CBs in the history of the game to be "the best ever" Darelle Revis certainly has been exposed - and he's supposed to be the best "shutdown corner" in the game

especially with the offense having a larger advantage with every passing season - I really don't believe in the "shutdown corner"

If shutdown means you are shutting #1 receivers down week in and week out, Ike Taylor did that for a 4 or 5 year stretch - getting INT's means your a "ball hawk" so I get tired of INTs being included - sure, it helps a ton - but, there are diff types of corners.

Lewis deserves solid money no doubt but not what he was asking from our Steelers
Been takin' them cranky pills again I see?

Pretty much, if you eliminate your diatribe on cliché`s, and you will find we are in total agreement. Maybe how about if we change the term "shutdown corner" to "The guy who takes on the best receiver of the other team with the intention to remove him from the game plan". Does that work for you?

BTW, I never said Taylor was the best ever CB. For clarification purposes, what I've said is: he is a lot better than Lewis is, and will ever be. Allen is likely at least is as good, or the FO would have never let Lewis go in the first place, and health permitting, will be a significant upgrade at the strong side corner.

The FO is also of the opinion that Allen is the heir apparent to Taylor. While the switch may not happen this year, undoubtedly, it will happen the following year, with Taylor moving to the strong side, which will STILL be an upgrade over Lewis' potential.

Again, health permitting, we are in good shape at corner for the next two years, and signing Gay gives us a better than ok nickel corner, and Brown will be the dime, unless we land somebody else in the draft.
VaDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 11:30 AM   #114
El-Gonzo Jackson
Living Legend
 
El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,002
Member Number: 8264
Thanks: 271
Thanked 1,834 Times in 921 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post

Lewis deserves solid money no doubt but not what he was asking from our Steelers
He got an average of a little over $5million a season. I would say that is fair market value for a guy that has steadily improved since his 2nd season in the NFL and played as well as he did last season.

Its nowhere near the $8million doom and gloom as the title of this thread states. He got was the market is, from professional NFL General Manager and NFL team....not what some armchair GM's here think.
__________________
El-Gonzo Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 01:17 PM   #115
VaDave
Team President
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 2,363
Gender: Male
Member Number: 479
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,621 Times in 919 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

He got market for a starter. He was not going to be a starter in the Burgh, which was obviously the opinion of the professional GM of the NFL Team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, shared by some members of this board.
VaDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 01:36 PM   #116
El-Gonzo Jackson
Living Legend
 
El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,002
Member Number: 8264
Thanks: 271
Thanked 1,834 Times in 921 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaDave View Post
He got market for a starter. He was not going to be a starter in the Burgh, which was obviously the opinion of the professional GM of the NFL Team, the Pittsburgh Steelers, shared by some members of this board.
Do you have a link to this opinion that Keenan Lewis was not going to be a starting CB on the Steelers if he was here next year?

He was the only CB on the Steelers roster to start all 16 games last year. He had more tackles and passes defended than any other CB on the Steelers roster...........and you somehow think he was going to be the nickel corner??

Man, I don't know whether to ask you for insight on what Kevin Colbert is thinking in the draft or call BS.
__________________
El-Gonzo Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to El-Gonzo Jackson For This Useful Post:
pete74 (04-04-2013)
Old 04-04-2013, 02:40 PM   #117
pete74
Super Moderator
Supporter
 
pete74's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: pittsburgh
Posts: 3,278
Member Number: 15921
Thanks: 93
Thanked 425 Times in 224 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaDave View Post
What you don't seem to realize is Taylor, however slightly it may appear statistically, was better against the best WRs the opponents had to offer.

Another point of consideration is that Taylor primarily defends the weakside of the Offense. If you know anything about defensive backfield play, this means he has much more area to cover with less support. Significantly less support. The way our D was deployed last year, most of the time Taylor is on an island, Clark with the center zone and Lewis with Troy over the top.

I'm sorry my friend, I wholeheartedly disagree with your supposition that Lewis and Taylor are even close to having equal value. When you look around the league at what corners of Taylors skill sets are, we are getting a bargain.

Lewis would get destroyed covering the weakside. Cortez Allen is not quite ready, but should be with a year as a starter. Looking at 2014, Taylors last year, we would be better off with him playing strongside than Lewis, and it will be at a lower cap hit.

Furthermore, I fully expect Lewis at about 2015 should be re-entering the FA market looking for work, then bring him back, lock him up, and play him strongside where he belongs, working on a bargain contract.
Very presumptive of you to think Lewis would get destroyed on the weakside. We're did you come up with that? He looked decent when Taylor was out for 4 games.
Anyway my main point which you can't seem to grasp is that Taylor is 33. I'm for keeping the younger up and coming corner. It was Lewis's first season as a starter and odds are he would of only of got better. Taylor is at the age were players begin to slow and Lewis is in his prime. Enough said
__________________
pete74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 03:08 PM   #118
VaDave
Team President
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 2,363
Gender: Male
Member Number: 479
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,621 Times in 919 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
Do you have a link to this opinion that Keenan Lewis was not going to be a starting CB on the Steelers if he was here next year?

He was the only CB on the Steelers roster to start all 16 games last year. He had more tackles and passes defended than any other CB on the Steelers roster...........and you somehow think he was going to be the nickel corner??

Man, I don't know whether to ask you for insight on what Kevin Colbert is thinking in the draft or call BS.
You can call it BS if you want. But to reiterate, AGAIN,

The reason Lewis defended so many attempts last year was NOT because of his outstanding play. The reason he was thrown at so much was the coverage on the other receivers was better was better. If you have some time and about $30, subscribe to NFL game rewind and spend a few hours watching the coaches view. Don't take my word for it, it's on the tape.

I'm not so sure where you've been or what press reports you've been reading, but from what I've read, and have read often in various local, and national media outlets, not to mention what I've observed on the field, Allen is a better talent. This is not a closely guarded secret.

Being honest, I was somewhat surprised that Allen didn't start last season. But on further reflection, Allen is better at man to man coverage and had a higher value playing the nickel, considering how often offenses throw three wides at us, and since Lewis was under contract, and could function well on the strong side with some over the top help, why not leave him there? Lewis in the slot was and is not an option, at least not one to yield much success.

The normal take, and presumably yours as well, is since Lewis started, he must be a better player. I'm not so sure that was the case here. It was a case of getting the best players on the field where they can do the most good. There was enough confusion going on with all of the injuries out there as it was without bopping players back in forth.

As for a direct connection with the FO, I have none, but I am an intuitive by nature, and observed actions speak louder than words. Looking at the cap numbers, and what Lewis signed for, the Steelers could have worked a similar deal and been none the worse for it. The fact that they didn't even bother to offer him a contract should tell you something, don't you think?
VaDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 03:36 PM   #119
VaDave
Team President
 

Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Richmond, Va
Posts: 2,363
Gender: Male
Member Number: 479
Thanks: 804
Thanked 1,621 Times in 919 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pete74 View Post
Very presumptive of you to think Lewis would get destroyed on the weakside. We're did you come up with that? He looked decent when Taylor was out for 4 games.
Anyway my main point which you can't seem to grasp is that Taylor is 33. I'm for keeping the younger up and coming corner. It was Lewis's first season as a starter and odds are he would of only of got better. Taylor is at the age were players begin to slow and Lewis is in his prime. Enough said
It's kind of hard to tell just how effective Lewis was on the weak side the last two games Taylor was out, because Lewis was damaged too. We played lot of cover two at that point and got by. You do that for a game or two, but over a whole season, you give up a lot of run support, as well as passes over the middle. Eventually, the piper will be paid, and the defensive numbers will eventually go in the toilet.

A major part of the success of our defense is based on two things, pressure off the edge up field on the QB, and the ability to have one safety truly free. That means we got somebody in the secondary going one on one a fair amount of the time.

As for the last two games, what should be alarming is that with a choice of throwing a ball in Lewis' direction, or Josh Victorian's, the fact that he saw any passes at all is telling.

As for Taylor's age, so? The guy can still play. The game plan is Allen will be ready when he hangs it up. We have two drafts, and access to more than a few FA corners over the next two years to fill the strong side. In the condition Taylor keep himself in, I wouldn't be surprised if he couldn't play into his late 30s on the strong side with some over the top help.

Hey, look, don't take my word for it, look at the action of the team. It speaks louder than words. IF Lewis was that good, and that valuable, at the price he settled for, he would still be a Steeler. Is that THAT hard of a concept to grasp?

Actually, the guy in the secondary that deserves the man of the year award was Ryan Clark. When Clark and Palamalu go, it's going to be a big dropoff. Now that is an issue.
VaDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2013, 03:41 PM   #120
El-Gonzo Jackson
Living Legend
 
El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 9,002
Member Number: 8264
Thanks: 271
Thanked 1,834 Times in 921 Posts
Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaDave View Post
You can call it BS if you want. But to reiterate, AGAIN,

The reason Lewis defended so many attempts last year was NOT because of his outstanding play. The reason he was thrown at so much was the coverage on the other receivers was better was better. If you have some time and about $30, subscribe to NFL game rewind and spend a few hours watching the coaches view. Don't take my word for it, it's on the tape.

I'm not so sure where you've been or what press reports you've been reading, but from what I've read, and have read often in various local, and national media outlets, not to mention what I've observed on the field, Allen is a better talent. This is not a closely guarded secret.

Being honest, I was somewhat surprised that Allen didn't start last season. But on further reflection, Allen is better at man to man coverage and had a higher value playing the nickel, considering how often offenses throw three wides at us, and since Lewis was under contract, and could function well on the strong side with some over the top help, why not leave him there? Lewis in the slot was and is not an option, at least not one to yield much success.

The normal take, and presumably yours as well, is since Lewis started, he must be a better player. I'm not so sure that was the case here. It was a case of getting the best players on the field where they can do the most good. There was enough confusion going on with all of the injuries out there as it was without bopping players back in forth.

As for a direct connection with the FO, I have none, but I am an intuitive by nature, and observed actions speak louder than words. Looking at the cap numbers, and what Lewis signed for, the Steelers could have worked a similar deal and been none the worse for it. The fact that they didn't even bother to offer him a contract should tell you something, don't you think?
I noticed Keenan Lewis playing well at Oregon St, opposite Brandon Hughes, some 5 years ago. I then noticed he played well at the Senior Bowl against top competition. He then looked fluid in drills at the NFL combine. Lewis played almost strictly man coverage at OSU, and again everybody said Hughes was the #1 guy so teams threw at Lewis more often.

Keenan Lewis was transitionting from Man to zone coverage in the Steelers system and was pushing McFadden for the starters spot in his 2nd season. He then got into Tomlin's dog house for a couple dumb penalties and sat behind McFadden and Gay.

Lewis was still playing a bit too far off in his 3rd year and finally put it all together last year. IMO. You can say he defended more balls because he was the #2 CB all you want, but there are 31 other #2 CB's in the NFL and Lewis was in position to defend footballs more than at least 30 of them.(if you consider Richard Sherman a #2 also) Hate all you want, but the guy is a good CB and its a shame we didnt have the cap space to keep him.

2012 CB stats are here. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...passesDefended

I suspect there might be some locker room issues as he is a close friend of Wallace that might have made it easier not to try and keep him around, but I dont pretend to know that.
__________________
El-Gonzo Jackson is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts