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Old 04-04-2013, 04:43 PM   #121
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

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Actually, the guy in the secondary that deserves the man of the year award was Ryan Clark. When Clark and Palamalu go, it's going to be a big dropoff. Now that is an issue.
definitely agree with that. Plus with that big helmet Clark looks like either Dark Helmet from Space Balls or a character from the Peanuts cartoons. I love it!

Allen was able to force turnovers so I would have expected to see him on the field more. Lewis is a good CB and it is a shame we couldn't keep him
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:15 PM   #122
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

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I noticed Keenan Lewis playing well at Oregon St, opposite Brandon Hughes, some 5 years ago. I then noticed he played well at the Senior Bowl against top competition. He then looked fluid in drills at the NFL combine. Lewis played almost strictly man coverage at OSU, and again everybody said Hughes was the #1 guy so teams threw at Lewis more often.

Keenan Lewis was transitionting from Man to zone coverage in the Steelers system and was pushing McFadden for the starters spot in his 2nd season. He then got into Tomlin's dog house for a couple dumb penalties and sat behind McFadden and Gay.

Lewis was still playing a bit too far off in his 3rd year and finally put it all together last year. IMO. You can say he defended more balls because he was the #2 CB all you want, but there are 31 other #2 CB's in the NFL and Lewis was in position to defend footballs more than at least 30 of them.(if you consider Richard Sherman a #2 also) Hate all you want, but the guy is a good CB and its a shame we didnt have the cap space to keep him.

2012 CB stats are here. http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/pl...passesDefended

I suspect there might be some locker room issues as he is a close friend of Wallace that might have made it easier not to try and keep him around, but I dont pretend to know that.

We had the cap space. We just didn't want him. Didn't even bother to make him an offer. You may be right, there might be some issues other than talent of which we will never know.

One other thing I do not HATE Lewis. He was serviceable. Nothing more. If he was that indispensable, he's still be on the team. The guy had 112 balls thrown his way. You say that has no bearing, but you tell me why, opposing QB, and OCs would chose to pass in his direction an average of almost 10 times a game?

Also, you may want to consider, defending 23 out of 112 passes is not a great ratio. Granted, you don't have to always get your hands on a ball to be effective, but when you are seeing that much action, one would hope for a little more contact with the football.

BTW, I went though the stats you posted, and thank you for that. I also opened the link to view the whole season. I was surprised that there are no stats for completed passes, as well as yards given up. What you got there is only part of the story.

Last edited by VaDave; 04-04-2013 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:14 PM   #123
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

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We had the cap space. We just didn't want him. Didn't even bother to make him an offer.

He was serviceable. Nothing more. If he was that indispensable, he's still be on the team. The guy had 112 balls thrown his way. You say that has no bearing, but you tell me why, opposing QB, and OCs would chose to pass in his direction an average of almost 10 times a game?

.
The ranking that somebody posted links to in Bleacher Report had him as the #34 CB. I think he was a better than average #2 CB in the NFL and rankings would point that way too.

112 balls thrown to him in a 16 game season is an average of 7 balls a game. Not sure if you were thinking the Steelers play an 11 game schedule?? Richard Sherman was targeted 86 times for an average of 5.4 times a game. Neither seems too outlandish in todays NFL.

Maybe help us with some insight and stats on William Gay. That is the saddest part of the situation .....that we lost a guy in Lewis who was on his way up and replaced him with a guy that had arguably one of the worst seasons at CB in the NFL.
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Old 04-04-2013, 06:19 PM   #124
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Stats Don't Lie: The NFL's 10 Worst Cornerbacks Of 2012
7. William Gay

Gay was one of many who experienced a terrible season in the desert in 2012. While he only gave up one touchdown all season he was repetitively picked on by quarterbacks who wished to throw away from Patrick Peterson as he graded out as the fourth worst corner in coverage according to PFF.

His final marks include giving up 52 catches for 726 yards including averaging 14 yards a catch by opposing receivers, one of the weakest in the league.

His problem was poor tackling which resulted in giving up 300 yards after the catch, ranking seventh. He consistently gave up big plays including catches of 67,57,38, and 36 yards, which killed the Cardinals defense.

Even during the Cardinals four game winning streak to start the season, Gay ironically had his four worst games, He was caught out of position frequently and showed poor technique. Six penalties and 12 missed tackles didn't help his cause during the 2012 season.

http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/ar..._2012/12897910
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:40 AM   #125
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Gay is not going to start, ( or heaven help us if he has to) is going to be a slot in nickel-dime packages, and is working for less money. Granted, it was a crap year he had, but it was a crap year for the whole team that led to ownership blowing it up and starting over.

What the Cards thought they were getting in Gay was a starting corner, which he isn't, or we would have kept him a year ago, much like the Saints are expecting out of Lewis. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis shows up on that list next year.

One other point of consideration, Ike Taylor also had a crap beginning to the year too, until Munday was benched. There may be more to Gays Cardinal story than just stats, as someone else posted about Lewis, that we don't know about.

Good posts Gonzo. I'm enjoying the dialog. BTW, It would be interesting for a similar breakdown on Lewis.......
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:18 AM   #126
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

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Gay is not going to start, ( or heaven help us if he has to) is going to be a slot in nickel-dime packages, and is working for less money. Granted, it was a crap year he had, but it was a crap year for the whole team that led to ownership blowing it up and starting over.

What the Cards thought they were getting in Gay was a starting corner, which he isn't, or we would have kept him a year ago, much like the Saints are expecting out of Lewis. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis shows up on that list next year.

One other point of consideration, Ike Taylor also had a crap beginning to the year too, until Munday was benched. There may be more to Gays Cardinal story than just stats, as someone else posted about Lewis, that we don't know about.

Good posts Gonzo. I'm enjoying the dialog. BTW, It would be interesting for a similar breakdown on Lewis.......
I know Gay wont start, unless the 33 year old Taylor gets injured again. Knowing that teams often go with 3 WR's in todays NFL, I would have rather had Taylor, Allen Lewis as opposed to Taylor, Allen Gay that we currently will have.

Also knowing that not a lot of CB's are still great after 35 yrs of age, I sure hope we get a decent prospect this year or that Curtis Brown suddenly becomes the #2 guy we all hoped he would.
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Old 04-05-2013, 11:07 AM   #127
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

Here are some stats that I gleaned from the internet.

Richard Sherman -- Completions allowed 47.1%, Pass defended 24, Tackles 64
Charles Tillman -- Completions allowed 63.3%, Pass defended 11, Tackles 85
Tim Jennings -- completions allowed 52.9%, Pass defended 11, Tackles 60
Keenan Lewis-- Completions allowed 52.7%, Pass defended 23, Tackles 71
Patrick Peterson-- Completions allowed 59.3%, Pass defended 17, Tackles 59

The best ever Completion percentage allowed was recorded by Revis a couple years ago at 45.6. So this whole notion that Keenan Lewis was targeted more often because he was an easy mark is a bit silly IMO. Lewis was statistically better than Charles Tillman, Patrick Peterson, Tim Jennings in completions allowed.

Lewis allowed 7% more receptions than Revis did at his very best. That means if Revis was thrown at as much as Keenan Lewis was last season, Revis would have allowed 8 fewer receptions. One more completion every 2 games!!!

Was Lewis worth $8million a year? Probably not, but it would not have been bad to keep a top notch guy at $5million a year IMO.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:02 PM   #128
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

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Lewis allowed 7% more receptions than Revis did at his very best. That means if Revis was thrown at as much as Keenan Lewis was last season, Revis would have allowed 8 fewer receptions. One more completion every 2 games!!!

Was Lewis worth $8million a year? Probably not, but it would not have been bad to keep a top notch guy at $5million a year IMO.
Keenan Lewis has Ike Taylor on the other side. He also has Ryan Clark on the over the top and Troy doing whatever Troy does. Darrelle Revis has ... Darrelle Revis. He is that secondary. He's the whole secondary.

It's easier to play in a secondary and allow fewer receptions when the secondary you're playing in is first in the NFL. Guys like Patrick Peterson and Darrelle Revis were playing in a secondary in which they were the guy. As you've pointed out, William Gay is not a legitimate starting CB but was playing opposite Peterson. There's more to just Revis' game than defending passes, too. He's like Troy - you always have to know where he is and what he's doing on the field. There's a certain intimidation factor that he brings and Lewis hasn't shown enough or proven enough to be even close to Revis in terms of on field play or the 'oh shit' factor he brings.

That, and Allen is a better CB anyway.
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Old 04-05-2013, 12:12 PM   #129
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

The fact of the matter is that The Steelers did not offer Keenan a contract.

Stats aren't the entire story. I still have a feeling it was something that happened in the locker room that cemented his demise in Pittsburgh. AB was talking about some players more concerned about individual stats than teamwork. Well, Lewis and Wallace were best friends growing up and may have had some kind of competition between them. Notice they are both gone, now.

Keenan is also signed with The Saints near his home town. He may not have stayed with the Steelers for the same amount of money.

Either way, Cortez seems to be "the next man up" and looks superior and, for now, cheaper. The signing of Gay is for nickel and dime packages where he excelled.
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Old 04-05-2013, 06:02 PM   #130
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Default Re: Keenan Lewis Worth 8 Million a Year?

RE: Gay, plus he is a very good special teamer. Not another Chidi Iwoma, but not too far off the mark.
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