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Old 12-11-2012, 09:26 PM   #111
madtowndrunkard
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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Originally Posted by teegre View Post
Here is the thing, some people do not want to acknowledge anything that Tomlin has done. Cowher & Tomlin can do the same thing(s), and while Cowher is considered a genius… Tomlin is considered to be a horrible coach.

For example…

FIRST FOUR YEARS
Cowher inhereited a bunch of players from Noll. They went to one SuperBowl, and lost it.

Tomlin inhereited a bunch of players from Cowher. They went to two SuperBowls, winning one & losing the other.

2 SuperBowls > 1 SuperBowl

1 Lombardi > 0 Lombardis

PLAYERS SHINING UNDER THEIR NEW COACH
You state that Cowher got the most out of those players from Noll.

The same can be said about Tomlin. James Harrison was rotting on the bench, until Tomlin inserted him into the starting line-up. Likewise, Troy & Harrison both won the DPOY award, something that neither did (nor ANY player did) under Cowher.

NOT PREPARED
You aver that these losses to bad teams are due to not being prepared.

I remember two of the worst losses in Steelers history were the 1994 AFCCG and the 2001 AFCCG. In 1994, the team made a SuperBowl video, prior to that game. Likewise, in 2001, the team booked their hotel rooms for the SuperBowl, before they actually played in that game, as well. Talk about not “preparing” your team in the proper manner.

COWHER NEVER HAD BIG BEN
…and Cowher never wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews (OT). Maybe the reason that Cowher never had an elite QB, is because he passed on guys like Drew Brees… just as he tried to pass on Big Ben.

Heck, even after drafting BB, Cowher was going to sit BB on the bench until Tommy Maddox retired. Luckily, due to injury, BB was forced to play. Again, maybe Cowher never had an elite QB, because he did not want one (or didn't understand what an elite QB truly was).
Dude.. you are crazy...

Cowher inherited a BAD team.... He took over a team that was not expected to do anything. He took a bad team and made them a good team...and he did it with his own system, his own people, and his own ideas. Bill Cowher rebuilt the steelers and brought us back to greatness... we had success during that decade that very few teams could match. He showed that team how to win. Most of those players were not so special until Cowher took over the team and started winning. So to say Cowher took over the same thing Tomlin took over is completely crazy. I mean seriously .... go sell that BS to someone else. Wow... to think someone actually believes that BS... it's hilarious.


As for the QB... Cowher didn't do the scouting...he didn't do the drafting... he did not get that kind of pull in the organization till later in his career. He probably made mistakes trying to fill the position out of desperation...but no question for many years he was given a bad QB... and he managed to go deep in the playoffs on a regular basis with a bad QB.

As for worst losses in steelers history? Losing the AFCC game twice? really? You think that's worse then our loss to Denver last season? I think not. worse then losing to the Browns, Chargers, Raiders, and Titans in a matter of a couple months.... I think I'll take an AFCC loss to not winning a single playoff game with the #1 defense and Ben as our QB over this season and last.

Say what you want about Cowher or Tomlin... there is no way you can argue that this team is NOT under achieving (this season and last) ... Nor can you argue that Cowher's teams were under achieving during his first 5-6 years. No one with any football sense would agree.

oh and something else that's worth noting... Bill Cowher had to beat the Tom Brady led patriots during the peak of their cheating scandal that directly led to several Patriots SB births. If I remember correctly the Pats took us down in 3 AFCC games... was it 3 or 2? and they did it by cheating.
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Old 12-11-2012, 09:32 PM   #112
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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Originally Posted by jiminpa View Post
How many of those QB personnel decisions were made by Cowher, and how many were made by the guy who chased Rod Woodson out of town so he could afford the upgrade to Chad Scott?

Cowher didn't get that kind of pull with in the organization till later in his career. No matter what you say there are those that will fore ever blame Cowher for a string of bad drafts made by the front office. The funny thing is once Cowher did start having heavy influence in drafts/personnel decisions , the drafts got better and we won 2 SB's because of it.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:41 PM   #113
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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Originally Posted by madtowndrunkard View Post
Dude.. you are crazy...

Cowher inherited a BAD team.... He took over a team that was not expected to do anything. He took a bad team and made them a good team...and he did it with his own system, his own people, and his own ideas. Bill Cowher rebuilt the steelers and brought us back to greatness... we had success during that decade that very few teams could match. He showed that team how to win. Most of those players were not so special until Cowher took over the team and started winning. So to say Cowher took over the same thing Tomlin took over is completely crazy. I mean seriously .... go sell that BS to someone else. Wow... to think someone actually believes that BS... it's hilarious.


As for the QB... Cowher didn't do the scouting...he didn't do the drafting... he did not get that kind of pull in the organization till later in his career. He probably made mistakes trying to fill the position out of desperation...but no question for many years he was given a bad QB... and he managed to go deep in the playoffs on a regular basis with a bad QB.

As for worst losses in steelers history? Losing the AFCC game twice? really? You think that's worse then our loss to Denver last season? I think not. worse then losing to the Browns, Chargers, Raiders, and Titans in a matter of a couple months.... I think I'll take an AFCC loss to not winning a single playoff game with the #1 defense and Ben as our QB over this season and last.

Say what you want about Cowher or Tomlin... there is no way you can argue that this team is NOT under achieving (this season and last) ... Nor can you argue that Cowher's teams were under achieving during his first 5-6 years. No one with any football sense would agree.

oh and something else that's worth noting... Bill Cowher had to beat the Tom Brady led patriots during the peak of their cheating scandal that directly led to several Patriots SB births. If I remember correctly the Pats took us down in 3 AFCC games... was it 3 or 2? and they did it by cheating.
Here we go again.

I iterate (because, I think that you may have missed this first part): some people do not want to acknowledge anything that Tomlin has done. Cowher & Tomlin can do the same thing(s), and while Cowher is considered a genius… Tomlin is considered a horrible coach.

We all agree that Cowher was effing great… but, some people seem to think that giving Tomlin credit for winning somehow takes away from Cowher. They BOTH can be great; it is not an "either/or" situation. Make sense?

REBUILDING
You keep bringing up how Cowher rebuilt the Steelers… but, then you turn right around & say that he was not responsible for drafting those players in his early years. Which is it?

Furthermore, you keep bringing up that Tomlin inherited a group of good players, and as I've mentioned, Cowher inherited a team rife with talent. Unless… hmmm… do you think that Greg Lloyd, Carnell Lake, Rod Woodson, Thomas Everett, and four-fifths of a 90s O-line were (as you stated) BAD?… maybe those players are (as you also stated) "not so special"???

Both coaches inherited a bunch of talent… yet, you praise Cowher, while saying that Tomlin sucks.

COACHING
You say that Cowher got the best out of players, well, so has Tomlin. Again, it seems as though you missed this part of my post, as well. Hence, I'll say it again.

James Harrison was rotting on the bench, until Tomlin inserted him into the starting line-up. Likewise, Troy & Harrison both won the DPOY award, something that neither did (nor ANY player did) under Cowher.

Both coaches got the most out of their players… yet, you praise Cowher, while saying that Tomlin sucks.

DRAFT
Here is the thing that gets me about Tomlin haters. They continuously flip-flop about the draft.

Mendenspin is a bad pick… blame Tomlin.
Woodley is a great pick… praise Colbert; Tomlin had nothing to do with it.

BUT, these same people say the opposite about Cowher.

Jamain Stephens… blame the GM. Cowher was not responsible for that pick.
Alan Faneca… Cowher is a great evaluator of talent.

BETTER YET…

Casey Hampton in the 2001 draft… Cowher made a great pick.
Passing on Drew Brees in 2001… Cowher didn't have control of draft picks.

You can't have it both ways.

And, of course, the biggest decision of Cowher's career: Big Ben. I repeat: Cowher never wanted Big Ben. Cowher wanted Shawn Andrews (OT).

WORST LOSSES
In one of their championship seasons, Dallas lost TWICE to a 3-13 Washington team. Talk about the best losing to the worst. Two of Dallas's three losses came against the worst team in the league. But, they won the championship.

The following year, the Steelers lost in the AFCCG.

I would much rather lose TWICE to the WORST team in the league and still win the SuperBowl, than to lose ANY play-off game. Honestly, wouldn't you give up two regular season losses for a SuperBowl win???

ANALOGY
Tomlin & Cowher are playing golf. Cowher hits a hole in one, and the Steelers fans praise him. Tomlin hits a hole in one… and Steelers fans say that it was the clubs, or that Cowher went first, or et cetera.

Both coaches hit a hole in one… yet, you praise Cowher, while saying that Tomlin sucks.

All that I am asking for, is that you at least give Tomlin credit for the things that he did the SAME as Cowher. Make sense?

AGREED
The Taperiots stole three SuperBowls from the league (and two AFCCGs from the Steelers). We agree 100% on that. That is why I hate them more than I hate the Ravens.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:44 AM   #114
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
Good luck making sense of it, per Dejan Kovacevic's Sulia:
Quote:
Mike Tomlin's odd explanation for not going to two when it was 34-16 ... READ MORE:

Mike Tomlin was asked why he didn't go for two when the Steelers pulled within 34-16. A 34-18 deficit sets up a situation where they can tie with two TDs: "Until we stopped them, it was going to be insignificant. I was holding the two-point plays for that reason and that reason only. Now, we still have them in our hip pocket. Those specialty plays, we didn't want to put on tope unless we had an opportunity to close the gap. As you can see, we didn't." ... Good luck making sense of that.

So.... how many super-secret special plays does a team really have for a 4th&G-from-inside-the-5 situation (effectively, what a 2pt try amounts to)
i'd expect to have damned near the entire playbook available there, so what's MT trying to keep under wraps?
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:22 AM   #115
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

Some of Tomlin's plays are so good, they could only be used on the most special of occasions. Kinda like grandma's fine china.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:32 AM   #116
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

Tomlin's grace period is well and truly over I thin k we can all agree on that, he's going to be watched much more closely by the fans from now on.

His shit 'aint flying any more.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:26 AM   #117
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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Tomlin's grace period is well and truly over I thin k we can all agree on that, he's going to be watched much more closely by the fans from now on.

His shit 'aint flying any more.
Perhaps these utterly stupid comments from Tomlin aren't stupid at all - they're arrogant. He has job security. No fear about the nonsensical things he says to the media. No fear about not getting the players ready against bad teams. No fear about poor game management. The fact that this has been allowed to go on says the people above Tomlin in the organization aren't paying close enough attention.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:40 AM   #118
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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As for worst losses in steelers history? Losing the AFCC game twice? really? You think that's worse then our loss to Denver last season? I think not.
Yes, losing to that Stan Humphries-led Chargers team at HOME in 1994 as a one seed was worse. Much worse. Last year's team was a frigging MASH unit that I really had no expectations for going into the postseason. 1994 was different.
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:41 AM   #119
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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Tomlin's grace period is well and truly over I thin k we can all agree on that, he's going to be watched much more closely by the fans from now on.
That's nice, but the fans don't sign his paycheck...
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:14 AM   #120
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Default Re: Tomlin on why he didn't go for a 2pt-conversion

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Woodley was the 46th pick in 2007
Yeah, I guess you're right. I could've sworn I heard his name earlier than that, but it'd be hella nice to have his 2nd year's performance at any future point. And, it actually supports the sentiment proposed that Tomlin has been too soft on his players.
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