Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2014 Goal: $450.00 - To Date: $450.00 (100.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Steelers Football > Pittsburgh Steelers


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers

LOL

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-19-2012, 04:53 PM   #121
GoFor7
Banned
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,353
Member Number: 24211
Thanks: 32
Thanked 94 Times in 75 Posts
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
Today's offensive philosophy? Release the ball quickly.
Ben's philosophy: Hold onto the ball and wait until the last second.

San Fran, is #2 in rushing I believe, Houston #5, New England #8 in rushing. I think running the football, at least when you need short yardage - is extremely relevant, even to today's. Bradshaw of the Giants I believe was averaging 96.5 yards/game in last year's playoff run - that might be total yards, but nonethless - the RB is pretty important. This is still different from 3 yards and a cloud of dust. You still need a top 10 running game so teams respect it, which opens things up. If Ben wants empty backfield and slinging it on 3rd and short, when everyone knows there is no run game to worry about - that's cool.

EDIT: I realize those offensive lines are fantastically better than ours - hence, the better run game. Injuries do play a factor - it isn't an excuse.
EDIT 2: I don't think Ben wants the same thing as Brady with his input. Brady is dink and dunk. Manning might be a little closer to what Ben wants IMO.
The difference between Pittsburgh and New England, Houston, and Denver is they aren't dumbing down their QBs, nor are they obsessed with TOP. They actually take shots down field. They aren't afraid of scoring quickly because their defenses may or may not be too tired. Those teams takes some chances, and don't minimize their strengths because they're afraid of their weaknessess. The Steelers play small ball. They try to grind it out for the first three quarters, worrying about their weaknesses while minimizing their strengths (such as reducing Ben to bubble screens and dink-and-dunk all the time). When that doesn't work, they hope Ben bails them out in the fourth quarter. When he doesn't - BOOOOOOO HE STINKS!

The difference between the Steelers and those other teams: they let their QBs try to win the game early on so there's less of a probability that they'll be in a circumstance where the QB has to pull something out of his ass in the fourth.

As for Jerome, while he thinks Arians was too close to Ben, he also acknowledges this offense isn't working in Pittsburgh. When an old-school, ground and pound guy like that admits the Steelers can't win that way anymore, that should get the attention of Artie.
GoFor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:16 PM   #122
steelfury02
Wing Kong Exchange - CEO
Supporter
 
steelfury02's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,931
Member Number: 6076
Thanks: 5,454
Thanked 4,764 Times in 2,248 Posts
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
The difference between Pittsburgh and New England, Houston, and Denver is they aren't dumbing down their QBs, nor are they obsessed with TOP. They actually take shots down field. They aren't afraid of scoring quickly because their defenses may or may not be too tired. Those teams takes some chances, and don't minimize their strengths because they're afraid of their weaknessess. The Steelers play small ball. They try to grind it out for the first three quarters, worrying about their weaknesses while minimizing their strengths (such as reducing Ben to bubble screens and dink-and-dunk all the time). When that doesn't work, they hope Ben bails them out in the fourth quarter. When he doesn't - BOOOOOOO HE STINKS!

The difference between the Steelers and those other teams: they let their QBs try to win the game early on so there's less of a probability that they'll be in a circumstance where the QB has to pull something out of his ass in the fourth.

As for Jerome, while he thinks Arians was too close to Ben, he also acknowledges this offense isn't working in Pittsburgh. When an old-school, ground and pound guy like that admits the Steelers can't win that way anymore, that should get the attention of Artie.
Good point on Bettis - I agree - they can't win that way anymore - and I agreed with putting more on Ben, he had a career year in 07, won the SB again with a lot more guts than most I've watched - but, since - things don't look as great. All I'm saying is to give it a chance. A lot were on here saying that Haley might have had more aggressive play calls saved up for deeper in the season. It simply hasn't had time to develop. No one would argue that Haley didn't want Kurt and his 3, 1000 yard receivers to stay aggressive. The system needs time to develop.
__________________

I'VE GOT SOME YOUTHFUL ADJUSTMENTS FOR 'DAT AZZ
steelfury02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:23 PM   #123
steelfury02
Wing Kong Exchange - CEO
Supporter
 
steelfury02's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,931
Member Number: 6076
Thanks: 5,454
Thanked 4,764 Times in 2,248 Posts
My Mood: Fine
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Good job not letting it fester Ben

After all my bitching about Ben's attitude - I hope this means they'll band together and start fresh. 0-0 Peeps. Maybe that 30 day vacation from Steelers Fever helped Ben realize a few things.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...haley/1780033/
Ben Roethlisberger apologized to Steelers for his remarks
Jim Corbett, USA Today


PITTSBURGH -- Don't expect fireworks between Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger and offensive coordinator Todd Haley for postgame remarks Roethlisberger made following last Sunday's 27-24 overtime loss to the Dallas Cowboys.

Roethlisberger was critical of the offensive play-calling and deployment but said he made a point of apologizing to Haley on Monday morning after also telling coach Mike Tomlin and Steelers President Art Rooney II that he was sorry.

It was the second time this season Roethlisberger's remarks were interpreted as criticisms of Haley's play-calling.

"There won't be any rift,'' Roethlisberger told USA TODAY Sports before practice Wednesday. "Everything is fine. I don't even think Todd was upset with it. He said, 'I appreciate you coming. But I don't think you needed to.' We're good to go.

"That was just frustration, which normally doesn't get to me when speaking publicly. It was more frustration with myself than anything. We spoke on Monday. I wanted to make sure I was going to come in and apologize for causing an issue to Mike Tomlin, to Todd and Mr. (Art) Rooney."

Roethlisberger blamed it on his game-costing interception.

"One play," he said, "can ruin your day.''

Roethlisberger threw a sideline pass to receiver Mike Wallace, but cornerback Brandon Carr intercepted the pass and returned it 36 yards to the Pittsburgh 1-yard line to set up Dan Bailey's winning field goal.

When asked about Roethlisberger's comments, Tomlin called it "frustration'' during his Tuesday news conference. Roethlisberger had questioned whether enough plays were called for tight end Heath Miller and whether the Steelers should have run more no-huddle based on their early success with it.

"I let my frustrations jump out after the game and I don't usually do that,'' Roethlisberger told news reporters earlier. "Usually, I keep it under control. It's just frustration with myself. I'll be better at that. It comes from wanting to do anything to win a football game. I shouldn't have come out. It was my fault.''

Roethlisberger is 0-2 since returning from a sprained throwing shoulder and dislocated rib, injuries that kept him out for three games. The Steelers (7-7) host the Cincinnati Bengals (8-6) on Sunday at Heinz Field in a game critical to both teams' playoff hopes.
__________________

I'VE GOT SOME YOUTHFUL ADJUSTMENTS FOR 'DAT AZZ
steelfury02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:25 PM   #124
teegre
Living Legend
Supporter
 
teegre's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,728
Member Number: 24108
Thanks: 23,087
Thanked 24,507 Times in 9,932 Posts
My Mood: Dead
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
The difference between Pittsburgh and New England, Houston, and Denver is they aren't dumbing down their QBs, nor are they obsessed with TOP. They actually take shots down field. They aren't afraid of scoring quickly because their defenses may or may not be too tired. Those teams takes some chances, and don't minimize their strengths because they're afraid of their weaknessess. The Steelers play small ball. They try to grind it out for the first three quarters, worrying about their weaknesses while minimizing their strengths (such as reducing Ben to bubble screens and dink-and-dunk all the time). When that doesn't work, they hope Ben bails them out in the fourth quarter. When he doesn't - BOOOOOOO HE STINKS!

The difference between the Steelers and those other teams: they let their QBs try to win the game early on so there's less of a probability that they'll be in a circumstance where the QB has to pull something out of his ass in the fourth.

As for Jerome, while he thinks Arians was too close to Ben, he also acknowledges this offense isn't working in Pittsburgh. When an old-school, ground and pound guy like that admits the Steelers can't win that way anymore, that should get the attention of Artie.
1. The Steelers take their fair share of shots down the field. The difference: the WRs drop those passes.

2. Dumbing down? Haley has made BB the best QB in the league on third downs. And, as anyone who knows anything about football will tell you: the key is third downs. I don't consider the best third down conversion rate being dumb... quite the opposite, actually.

4-b. Also, before his injury, BB was completing 70% of his passes... which is great... not dumb.

3. You mention bubble screens as a negative... but, then you also praise Arians. Uh... I think we can all do the math on that contradiction.

4. You keep averring that the Steelers are obsessed with time of possession... and every time I ask you to provide us with a link that shows that TOP is their main goal, you disappear. So, please, once again, where did you read this? see this? hear this?

4-a. See point number 2. I think that Haley's focus has been making BB better at checking down... which has led to more conversions on third down (lead leading, actually). Why do I say that that has been Haley's goal?.. because, that is exactly what Haley said in his initial press conference.

5. A record of 7-7... with three games where BB was injured & one more where he was completely rusty. Records don't mean as much as one would believe.

6. The Steelers do not have the personnel to run the ball 40 times per game. That can mean a lot of things. Bad O-line. No RB worthy of handling the ball 40 times. Et cetera. It doesn't necessarily mean that they are trying to "dumb down" their QB.

7. Re: "BOOO!" You are the only person that I've seen actually "Boo" anyone... and that is when you "boo" either yourself or BB. Who on here "boos" BB??? Who here "boos" you??? It is just like how you call people "Yinzers" and then whine continuously about people calling you names. Again, has anyone ACTUALLY called you a name? Because, you certainly have do so.

SUMMATION:
You make some good points... truly, you do. But, your vile hatred of certian people; your strawman arguements; and your illogical assertions about Steelers fans... well... we all start to take you less seriosuly.

You could be right... but, we will never listen to you, because of all the other garbage that is right alongside of those good points.

Drop the act.
teegre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:33 PM   #125
GoFor7
Banned
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,353
Member Number: 24211
Thanks: 32
Thanked 94 Times in 75 Posts
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
Good point on Bettis - I agree - they can't win that way anymore - and I agreed with putting more on Ben, he had a career year in 07, won the SB again with a lot more guts than most I've watched - but, since - things don't look as great. All I'm saying is to give it a chance. A lot were on here saying that Haley might have had more aggressive play calls saved up for deeper in the season. It simply hasn't had time to develop. No one would argue that Haley didn't want Kurt and his 3, 1000 yard receivers to stay aggressive. The system needs time to develop.
Then it's time to open things up earlier in the game. Worrying about balance and bubble screens have put the Steelers in this hole. Maybe Ben throws more INTs, maybe the receivers have the dropsies again. All I know is I'd rather see the Steelers go down with the ball in the hands of the best players rather than this slow and painful death we've seen with them playing small ball.
GoFor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:39 PM   #126
Atlanta Dan
Resigned
Supporter
 
Atlanta Dan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,356
Member Number: 728
Thanks: 2,628
Thanked 8,397 Times in 3,686 Posts
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
But see, those teams don't have owners enamored with an outdated style of football. Those teams aren't forcing a playbook down their QB's throat. You think Manning and Brady have no input in those playbooks? Art Rooney needs to get with the idea that "putting the QB in his place" and dumbing him down isn't an recipe for a successful franchise.

The OC doesn't have to worship Ben, but if he's not working to Ben's strengths then it won't work out. 7-7 doesn't lie. Perhaps the Steelers' philosophy needs to change to match the philosophy of today's NFL. Otherwise, they're just pounding square pegs into round holes.
Would you concede the offense under Arians was pedestrian in terms of production, certainly in comparison to those run by QBs you regard to be Ben's peers?

And do you think continuing to have Ben sacked 50 times year while waiting for someone to break open deep was a long term plan for success? You keep hammering AJRII for wanting a better running game, but do not appear to spend much time discussing his stated concern this past off season that Ben could not continue to take the pounding he did with Arians as the OC. AJR II knows there was a 21 year gap between Bradshaw and Ben so consider the possibility he is highly motivated to protect his franchise QB.
Atlanta Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Atlanta Dan For This Useful Post:
teegre (12-19-2012)
Old 12-19-2012, 05:46 PM   #127
GoFor7
Banned
 

Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,353
Member Number: 24211
Thanks: 32
Thanked 94 Times in 75 Posts
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
Would you concede the offense under Arians was pedestrian in terms of production, certainly in comparison to those run by QBs you regard to be Ben's peers?
Yes, and I have stated many times that I thought Arians all too often crapped the bed in the red zone.

On the other hand, those organizations don't hire OCs to "put the QB in his place." Those OCs, while they may not worship their QBs, make sure said QBs are comfortable with what is going on. They make sure the QB has input. Most importantly, they make sure that QB is the focal point of the offense, and do not worry about outdated offensive philosophies to please their team's owner.

Also, if Artie didn't like the fact Arians was too close to Ben, then why didn't he fire Tomlin too? He's buddy-buddy grab-ass with all the players.
GoFor7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:48 PM   #128
teegre
Living Legend
Supporter
 
teegre's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,728
Member Number: 24108
Thanks: 23,087
Thanked 24,507 Times in 9,932 Posts
My Mood: Dead
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
Good point on Bettis - I agree - they can't win that way anymore - and I agreed with putting more on Ben, he had a career year in 07, won the SB again with a lot more guts than most I've watched - but, since - things don't look as great. All I'm saying is to give it a chance. A lot were on here saying that Haley might have had more aggressive play calls saved up for deeper in the season. It simply hasn't had time to develop. No one would argue that Haley didn't want Kurt and his 3, 1000 yard receivers to stay aggressive. The system needs time to develop.
Agreed.
Haley is great at getting the most out of the talent that he has.

In Arizona, he passed teasm to death, with those WRs & Warner. In KC, he ran over everybody.

Currently, I see that he has taken a QB who was good at improvising and/or making something out of nothing, and made that QB excellent on third downs (best in the league)... as well as being great on every other completion, too (70% completion rate, before the injury).

So, Haley has made BB into a more strategic passer. If it's not there deep, throw to Heath or Dwyer. THEN, if you think that the WR "might" get open, do your magic, by scambling around, and then find the WR for a big gain.

I do NOT think that Haley was trying to discourage BB from doing what BB does best... but, I also do not think that Haley (nor any Steelers fan) wants BB scrambling around on every single play.

Has Haley called too many running plays? Eh... maybe.

Has Haley made BB a better QB? Absolutely.

Again, BB will always be able to (and still does) avoid the pass rush & make something out of nothing, Haley has not changed that. What Haley has done is add two things to BB's repertoire:
--convert third downs (best in the league)
AND
--check down to the open outlet/hot read (i.e. take 5 yards, if they are giving you five yards... resulting in a 70% completion rate).

In other words, before his injury, BB was a legitimate MVP candidate.
teegre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 05:51 PM   #129
Atlanta Dan
Resigned
Supporter
 
Atlanta Dan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 15,356
Member Number: 728
Thanks: 2,628
Thanked 8,397 Times in 3,686 Posts
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post

Also, if Artie didn't like the fact Arians was too close to Ben, then why didn't he fire Tomlin too? He's buddy-buddy grab-ass with all the players.
Santonio Holmes and Mendenhall might dissent from that view of Tomlin.

As far as why not fire Tomlin, before this season he was HC of a team that had been to 2 Super Bowls and made the playoffs 4 out of 5 seasons

The team as a whole has not underperformed from 2007 -2011 (this year it has) = the offense has been mediocre
Atlanta Dan is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Atlanta Dan For This Useful Post:
zcoop (12-19-2012)
Old 12-19-2012, 05:52 PM   #130
teegre
Living Legend
Supporter
 
teegre's Avatar
 

Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 15,728
Member Number: 24108
Thanks: 23,087
Thanked 24,507 Times in 9,932 Posts
My Mood: Dead
Default Re: Ben Disappointed There Wasn’t More No-huddle Used Against Cowboys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan View Post
Would you concede the offense under Arians was pedestrian in terms of production, certainly in comparison to those run by QBs you regard to be Ben's peers?

And do you think continuing to have Ben sacked 50 times year while waiting for someone to break open deep was a long term plan for success? You keep hammering AJRII for wanting a better running game, but do not appear to spend much time discussing his stated concern this past off season that Ben could not continue to take the pounding he did with Arians as the OC. AJR II knows there was a 21 year gap between Bradshaw and Ben so consider the possibility he is highly motivated to protect his franchise QB.
Exactly!!!

Art II stated that he wanted more of a running game (who doesn't???)... but, the most important thing that Art II said was that he wanted to protect his QB.

This whole "Art II wants to put BB in his place" nonesense is a contrived, strawman arguement.
teegre is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts