GREG COSELL: Haley & Big Ben

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by teegre

PARAGRAPH 1
6-3 before BB's injury.

1-4 since.

Looks like "playing scared" was working.

PARAGRAPH 2
BB was indeed passing in that game. The team did not convert.

PARAGRAPH 3
Those 2012 opponents all had sound defenses; the 2007 opponents did not. Plus, BB wasn't injured for three games in 2007. Hines Ward. FWP. Et cetera.

More importantly, as Greg Cosell said, the offense was on the right track... until the injuries.

SUMMATION
6-3... Greg Cosell's educated analysis means everything... BB was injured... repeat...

You can quote this guy all you want, but what's most important: 7-7, 20th in scoring. No improvement from the last two seasons.

[teegre]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

You can quote this guy all you want, but what's most important: 7-7, 20th in scoring. No improvement from the last two seasons.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

You say: 7-7
I say: 6-3 before BB was injured
You say: 7-7

You say: 20th in scoring
I say: 18th in scoring before BB got injured
You say: 20th in scoring

You say: no improvement
I say: 18th > 22nd
You say: no improvement

You say: I have my opinions
I say: Greg Cosell has years of experience with analyzing film
You say: I have my opinions

[GoFor7]

With all the talent on this team - 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st - still underachieving badly. Still using the WRs wrong when they're all only sent 5-7 yards down field. That actually increases their chances of fumbling when they get trucked by LBs. These guys are meant to outrun DBs, not brace themselves for LBs.

"But Ben could get hurt!" Yeah, or the line could learn to block better. Like I said, no one has won a super bowl playing chicken shit scared football.

[Riddle_Of_Steel]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

You can quote this guy all you want, but what's most important: 7-7, 20th in scoring. No improvement from the last two seasons.

Your problem is that you want to analyze and dig deeper when it benefits your argument, and then you step back and evalutaae the season as a whole when deeper analysis would break your argument.

The offense was 6-3 before Ben got hurt. They were 2nd in ToP, and Ben was THE 3rd DOWN CONVERTER. They were starting to put more points on the board and things were looking up.

Saying that the defense CAN lose the game even if the offense possesses the ball is more of an indictment of the defense's poor play to start the season, than it is against Haley's scheme.

Matter of factly, when your offense is 2nd in ToP, you could say the offense is carrying the defense by making them not even have to earn their paychecks when they only have to spend 20:00 - 25:00 minutes of the 60:00 on the field.

If the defense lets Peyton leap up the field for a TD in two passes and :25 sec, that is on them-- not Haley or Ben.

[Riddle_Of_Steel]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

With all the talent on this team - 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st - still underachieving badly.

If I am not mistaken, that is about right where Arians left off last year, and not by coincidence, our entire Oline is in shambles again. I see a pattern....

But again, they were ranked much higher in all those categories pre-Ben injury and pre-KC.

I know though-- you want to use the overall rankings instead of analyzing trends and curves in those rankings and how they have changed over the course of the season, because you would have no ground left to stand on.

Originally Posted by GoFor7

Still using the WRs wrong when they're all only sent 5-7 yards down field. That actually increases their chances of fumbling when they get trucked by LBs. These guys are meant to outrun DBs, not brace themselves for LBs.

"But Ben could get hurt!" Yeah, or the line could learn to block better. Like I said, no one has won a super bowl playing chicken shit scared football.

But again, with no offensive line, and no running game to force the opposing defense to be two-dimensional, you are hanging Ben out to dry. And when Haley was hired-- the Rooneys made it quite clear that a condition of his employment was to lengthen Ben's career.

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel

Your problem is that you want to analyze and dig deeper when it benefits your argument, and then you step back and evalutaae the season as a whole when deeper analysis would break your argument.

The offense was 6-3 before Ben got hurt. They were 2nd in ToP, and Ben was THE 3rd DOWN CONVERTER. They were starting to put more points on the board and things were looking up.

Saying that the defense CAN lose the game even if the offense possesses the ball is more of an indictment of the defense's poor play to start the season, than it is against Haley's scheme.

Matter of factly, when your offense is 2nd in ToP, you could say the offense is carrying the defense by making them not even have to earn their paychecks when they only have to spend 20:00 - 25:00 minutes of the 60:00 on the field.

If the defense lets Peyton leap up the field for a TD in two passes and :25 sec, that is on them-- not Haley or Ben.

Exactly, and that's my point. The way these long, dink-and-dunk, short WR route drives are meant to help the team aren't working. If you're defense is blowing it being out there less than 25 minutes then TOP isn't the answer on offense, scoring as many points as possible in a quick manner is. The Steelers are still in a "defense first" mentality while they have a defense that is becoming less and less reliable.

If I am not mistaken, that is about right where Arians left off last year, and not by coincidence, our entire Oline is in shambles again. I see a pattern....

Uh-oh. Letting Arians off the hook for something? Better hope some of these posters don't know where you live.

But again, they were ranked much higher in all those categories pre-Ben injury and pre-KC.

I know though-- you want to use the overall rankings instead of analyzing trends and curves in those rankings and how they have changed over the course of the season, because you would have no ground left to stand on.

So they went from 18th to 20th after Ben went down? Wow! They were really running up that score before he got hurt!

They've been underachieving all year.

But again, with no offensive line, and no running game to force the opposing defense to be two-dimensional, you are hanging Ben out to dry. And when Haley was hired-- the Rooneys made it quite clear that a condition of his employment was to lengthen Ben's career.

Then perhaps Artie should've made more demands for a better RB. Going into the season with only Redman and Dwyer was a huge mistake. There were options in free agency that the Steelers ignored. When the owner wants to put more emphasis on the running game, but doesn't get a better RB, that should tell you a lot about his football acumen. Just because Dan was a great owner doesn't mean Artie is just because they share the same last name.

As for Ben, he's being put in danger anyways. RUTM gets stuffed, bubble screens go nowhere. Pass rushers can then pin their ears back on third-down. You might as well let him do more on 1st and 2nd downs, cause asking him to wait until 3rd down won't make him much safer. Besides, actually sending WRs down field means there's less of a chance a safety can get into the box, or even join a blitz.

[desertsteel]

Originally Posted by teegre

and, as Cowherd says, the tape does not lie.

I'm not sure that Cowherd coined that phrase :D

As for Haley, if the players will execute, the playcalling will be fine.

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by desertsteel

I'm not sure that Cowherd coined that phrase :D

As for Haley, if the players will execute, the playcalling will be fine.

Not when a deep threat is only allowed to run 10 yards down field. That doesn't open up much of anything for the other guys. When you keep them all 5-7 yards from the line of scrimmage, they're going to get hit by LBs - thus increasing the chance of fumbling. The Loose Change Crew already has the drops this season, don't need to increase their chances of turning it over.

[desertsteel]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

Not when a deep threat is only allowed to run 10 yards down field. That doesn't open up much of anything for the other guys. When you keep them all 5-7 yards from the line of scrimmage, they're going to get hit by LBs - thus increasing the chance of fumbling. The Loose Change Crew already has the drops this season, don't need to increase their chances of turning it over.

I agree that we need to stretch the field more.

[FanSince72]

Originally Posted by teegre

Greg Cosell was on The HERD (Colin Cowherd’s ESPN radio show) this morning. Cosell is a tape guru, who tells it as it is: no sugar coating; not stats; just tape… and, as Cowherd says, the tape does not lie.

Cowherd asked Cosell about the relationship between Haley & Big Ben.

Haley said that he talked to one of Big Ben’s former coaches, and that that coach applauded Haley for trying to lengthen Big Ben’s career. As that coach said, and Cosell agreed, “Even as big as Big Ben is, all of those hits take a toll.”

Cosell said that the plays that Haley was calling were working well (aside from the fumbles, which is another story in & of itself). They were keeping BB upright and not sacked… and BB & the offense was productive.

The problem arose when the O-line got injured/shuffled, and then the running game suffered, and BB got hurt, and they just haven’t gotten back on track.

But, Cosell was adamant that Haley was & is still making the right calls, but that injuries (O-line, BB), no running game, and turnovers have led to a slowed offense.

SUMMATION
Cosell averred that Haley is indeed making the right calls, in order to prolong BB’s career, as well as make BB & the offense better. .

Soooo, when do you figure the offense should start getting better?

It's funny that this Cosell dude points out:
"The problem arose when the O-line got injured/shuffled, and then the running game suffered, and BB got hurt, and they just haven’t gotten back on track. ", because I could say the same thing in reference to last season and the season before that and the season before that and so on. Yet in all those years I don't recall the offense looking as disorganized as we do right now and have for much of the season.

I like some of the things that Haley has done (or seems to be trying to do), but overall I really don't see all that much of a difference and in some ways I think it's worse. There doesn't seem to be any particular chemistry or evidence of everyone being on the same page. Sure, from time to time it seems like things click, but not so much that I get any sort of feeling of confidence about what I'm seeing.