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Old 12-27-2012, 10:18 AM   #91
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by Edman View Post
Because passing and "no-huddle" certainly was working. 'Run-Run-Pass' didn't cause a Pick 6, missing an open Mike Wallace, or cause yet another boneheaded play in the redzone. Nope, it was our "2x Super Bowl Winning QB" who did all of that, once again ill-prepared for a big game. This time there's no Bruce Arians to harp all the blame on (Though he still sucked).
You're right. Run, run, pass didn't cause any of that. What it did cause was the Steelers to be in many close games, thus putting more pressure on the defense. Ben played poorly, but that doesn't make him the Steelers' biggest problem. Besides, he's still won more than Haley in his career.

Hey ding-dong, they hardly used no-huddle this season. They were too worried about time of possession. Have you been paying attention at all?




Quote:
Doing it Haley's way, Ben was on pace for a CAREER SEASON, drastically eclipsing everything he did under Arians. Who made who look good again?

What I fault Haley and the team for is foolishly handing the car keys back to Ben. When we ran the offense Haley's way, we had plenty of success, but when we wanted to do Ben's way, the offense sucked.
Actually, he didn't hand the keys to Ben. Much of the season was dink-and-dunk, RUTM, and bubble screens. It was only Ben's incredible third down conversions that kept the Steelers going in the first half of the season. So by that, I'd say Ben made Haley look good.

12-4 > 8-8



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How come Ben was having the season of his life, if the Steelers were "corralling" him in their "outdated" system? I'm still waiting for your retort to that. He wasn't putting up Average Joe Game Manager stats, he was in MVP discussion. That doesn't happen in an "outdated" dinosaur system that hates Ben and wants to turn him into Trent Dilfer.
Because Ben was incredible on third downs after failed RUTM and bubble screens. He had to be, because the Steelers were more concerned with time of possession than scoring. Haley isn't the one who converted those third downs.

I know you're a sad, small-minded yinzer that for some reason wants to go back to the 90's, but that isn't going to work.

The Steelers want to keep games close. That's why they try to grind-out long drives. That's why they mostly just call on Ben on third down. That's why the WRs are only running routes 5 to 10 yard beyond the line of scrimmage. When you play that style, you won't score many points, there will be tons of pressure on the defense, and your QB won't be able to bail you out at the end.

Other NFL teams aren't fretting time of possession. Their offenses go on the field looking to score. They'll let WRs go deep for a potential quick strike. They don't take points away from themselves because they're scared that they might get into a shootout.

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I don't think that Art Rooney II's philosophy is outdated. Winning time of possession battle normally wins you lots of games. I have no problem if they want to have a more balanced offense which leads to long time of possession, but only if we have a good running game. It worked in the first half because the OL was healthy. Once the OL has broken down, the running game has become non-existence again. When the running game is not working, gaining time of possession is meaningless and I rather have the QB to throw a TD in 2 minutes than settle a FG in 6 minutes.
No, scoring wins you games. When you're more concerned with possession than scoring, you're taking points away from yourselves and just putting more pressure on the defense. The Steelers are no longer built to be a team that grinds it out for all 60 minutes. They are built more like a quick strike team. This defense has shown it can blow a lead when only being on the field less than 25 minutes a game. Time for a new philosophy. Perhaps scoring more points will take pressure off the defense, hmm? The Steelers need to stop fearing the quick strike teams and become one.

But no, I guess Artie is right and the rest of the NFL is wrong?
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Old 12-27-2012, 10:52 AM   #92
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

We can't play "quick strike" because we don't have a smart accurate QB who is willing to fine tune his craft. We have gung-ho Joe in the pocket.

For a baseball analogy. Ben is the Slugger who clumsily swings for the fences with 2 runners on base. Sure a Home Run is nice, but the smarter play is a base hit and keeps the tired and frustrated pitcher on the mound who will give even more runs.

On occasion he'll get it, but many other times he'll pop fly or strike out. That's not efficient and smart.

Asking for efficiency and smart QB play is not too much to ask for from Ben, he's capable of doing it, but his behind still wants to do sandlot.

We "Crazy Yinzers" always have this to fall back on. Doing it "Ben's Way" got the Steelers eliminated from the postseason Sunday. No-Huddle Pick 6. Ben having the worst game of the season doing it "his way". I know it eats you up inside that "Ben's way" resulted in an offensive trainwreck, and you want to blame Haley, Rooney, and the Crazy Yinzers for it, but the fact remains is Ben's Style killed the 2012 season, and he's finally getting called out.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:08 AM   #93
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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We can't play "quick strike" because we don't have a smart accurate QB who is willing to fine tune his craft. We have gung-ho Joe in the pocket.

For a baseball analogy. Ben is the Slugger who clumsily swings for the fences with 2 runners on base. Sure a Home Run is nice, but the smarter play is a base hit and keeps the tired and frustrated pitcher on the mound who will give even more runs.

On occasion he'll get it, but many other times he'll pop fly or strike out. That's not efficient and smart.

Asking for efficiency and smart QB play is not too much to ask for from Ben, he's capable of doing it, but his behind still wants to do sandlot.

We "Crazy Yinzers" always have this to fall back on. Doing it "Ben's Way" got the Steelers eliminated from the postseason Sunday. No-Huddle Pick 6. Ben having the worst game of the season doing it "his way". I know it eats you up inside that "Ben's way" resulted in an offensive trainwreck, and you want to blame Haley, Rooney, and the Crazy Yinzers for it, but the fact remains is Ben's Style killed the 2012 season, and he's finally getting called out.
Agreed. I actually recall noticing things changing this year when there was this concern over a lack of big plays. Around that time Ben's game changed. He started to look to downfield for it and that is when he began pressing and attempting to force the issue. Earlier in the year, he would scan the breadth of the field and either take what the D gave him or opt for the check down.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:26 AM   #94
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Agreed. I actually recall noticing things changing this year when there was this concern over a lack of big plays. Around that time Ben's game changed. He started to look to downfield for it and that is when he began pressing and attempting to force the issue. Earlier in the year, he would scan the breadth of the field and either take what the D gave him or opt for the check down.
Bingo. This^

The guy needs to evolve - his shit does in fact stink
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:07 PM   #95
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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We can't play "quick strike" because we don't have a smart accurate QB who is willing to fine tune his craft. We have gung-ho Joe in the pocket.

For a baseball analogy. Ben is the Slugger who clumsily swings for the fences with 2 runners on base. Sure a Home Run is nice, but the smarter play is a base hit and keeps the tired and frustrated pitcher on the mound who will give even more runs.

On occasion he'll get it, but many other times he'll pop fly or strike out. That's not efficient and smart.

Asking for efficiency and smart QB play is not too much to ask for from Ben, he's capable of doing it, but his behind still wants to do sandlot.

We "Crazy Yinzers" always have this to fall back on. Doing it "Ben's Way" got the Steelers eliminated from the postseason Sunday. No-Huddle Pick 6. Ben having the worst game of the season doing it "his way". I know it eats you up inside that "Ben's way" resulted in an offensive trainwreck, and you want to blame Haley, Rooney, and the Crazy Yinzers for it, but the fact remains is Ben's Style killed the 2012 season, and he's finally getting called out.
You really think 2012 was "Ben's way?" I didn't realize his way was run, run, pass or run, bubble screen, pass for the first 58 minutes of a game was. Do you even pay attention to the game, or do you just sit there hoping Ben fails in the last 2 minutes so you can bash him relentlessly? This season was no where close to "Ben's way," you're just venting because he had two bad games.

I love how people say "Haley will make Ben better!" Hey ding dongs, Haley hasn't won shit in his career. Ben has won twice. Now if that doesn't register, how about this - the Steelers offense has been worse in almost every aspect of the game this season. That includes: total rushing yards, yards per carry, TDs, passing, passing yards per play, completion percentage, yards per play, 1st downs, 3rd down conversions, and even yinz precious time of possession. The only thing that is better is sacks - they gave up a whopping THREE FEWER SACKS! Wow! Big improvement!

Face it, they did exactly what Artie wanted them to do this season, and it blew up right in their faces. I think many of you are just lashing out on Ben because if you blame Haley, you're also blaming Artie - huge no-no in yinzer nation.

You "crazy yinzers" fall back on what? The stiller way? You fall back to 90's football then? I guess you enjoy not winning anything.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:45 PM   #96
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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You really think 2012 was "Ben's way?" I didn't realize his way was run, run, pass or run, bubble screen, pass for the first 58 minutes of a game was. Do you even pay attention to the game, or do you just sit there hoping Ben fails in the last 2 minutes so you can bash him relentlessly? This season was no where close to "Ben's way," you're just venting because he had two bad games.

I love how people say "Haley will make Ben better!" Hey ding dongs, Haley hasn't won shit in his career. Ben has won twice. Now if that doesn't register, how about this - the Steelers offense has been worse in almost every aspect of the game this season. That includes: total rushing yards, yards per carry, TDs, passing, passing yards per play, completion percentage, yards per play, 1st downs, 3rd down conversions, and even yinz precious time of possession. The only thing that is better is sacks - they gave up a whopping THREE FEWER SACKS! Wow! Big improvement!

Face it, they did exactly what Artie wanted them to do this season, and it blew up right in their faces. I think many of you are just lashing out on Ben because if you blame Haley, you're also blaming Artie - huge no-no in yinzer nation.

You "crazy yinzers" fall back on what? The stiller way? You fall back to 90's football then? I guess you enjoy not winning anything.
Ben was on pace for his best season yet and was in MVP discussion before the injury. Yeah, I know, if you keep ignoring this fact it'll eventually go away, right? Haley is just a big incompetent idiot and therefore shouldn't be listened to. Ben is never wrong. It's never his fault. Just keep doing what he's doing, so we'll have more trainwreck performances like last Sunday.

When the Steelers win, it's all Ben, but when we fail, it's everyone else's fault. That's doesn't work. Your inability to hold Ben accountable for offensive failures is mind-boggling. Arians sucked, but he got all the blame for whenever Ben fucked up. It's no longer the case anymore. Ben was never held to real accountability in this town, so we have a bunch of apologists like you rising up to scapegoat anything within sight to protect your hero.

Last edited by Edman; 12-27-2012 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:30 PM   #97
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Ben was on pace for his best season yet and was in MVP discussion before the injury. Yeah, I know, if you keep ignoring this fact it'll eventually go away, right? Haley is an idiot and therefore shouldn't be listened to. Ben is never wrong. It's never his fault. Just keep doing what he's doing, so we'll have more trainwreck performances like last Sunday.
If it came between trusting Ben and Haley, I take the QB who won twice over the OC who never won anything. Does it sting when I remind you of that?

And yes, Ben was on his way to an MVP season because of how great he played on third down. He had to bail out the team after failed bubble screens and RUTM.

Maybe other teams finally caught on to the fact that the Steelers were playing their version of Marty ball, and Haley failed to adjust. Just continued to dink-and-dunk, RUTM, and bubble screens even when other teams had clearly caught on. Maybe next year they should try and let Ben win the game early. When you play Marty ball, the QB can't bail you out at the end every time.

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When the Steelers win, it's all Ben, but when we fail, it's everyone else's fault. That's doesn't work. Your inability to hold Ben accountable for offensive failures is mind-boggling. Arians sucked, but he got all the blame for whenever Ben fucked up. It's no longer the case anymore. Ben was never held to real accountability in this town, so we have a bunch of apologists like you rising up to scapegoat anything within sight to protect your hero.
I've admitted quit a few times Ben played poorly, I just don't see him as the goat for the entire season. I know it's hard for yinzers to understand since they make knee-jerk reactions over everything.

This town is full of Ben apologists? LOL! Good one! I guess they also bash Artie relentlessly too huh?

Now Edman, I can tell you're pretty simple-minded, so take a deep breath before you read. No more knee-jerk reactions. I'm going to explain to you how the Steelers want to play:

The Steelers want to play close to the vest games. They want the offense to possess the ball for long periods of time, even if those possessions don't result in scores. They believe this will make the defense better. They want the game to be close until the end. The problem is, when you play that style it means you'll be facing a lot of third downs and the game will be up for grabs at the end. Now tell me Edman, will the QB always bail out the team on the 3rd & long after failed RUTM and bubble screens? Will he always be able to pull magic out of his ass in the last two minutes because the team played scared the first 58 minutes?

It all goes back to outdated philosophies. This offense wasn't "Ben's way," it was Artie's way. You want the offense to take pressure off the defense? Score more. Become a quick strike team. Let Ben do more on first and second downs. Let Ben do more earlier in the game. Maybe that's less he has to do on third down. And maybe at the end of the game, instead of hoping Ben pulls a miracle out of his ass, maybe instead yinzers can wet their pants seeing the Steelers run out the clock after it's already one.

Otherwise, don't be pissed off when the offense doesn't score many points or Ben can't pull it out of his ass at the end.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:35 PM   #98
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

agreed.
Our offensive line fails, can't protect the QB or open holes, our running game fails, we lose field position battles (almost always it seems) because our ST's are horrendous on both sides of the ball, our WR's have been dropping balls left and right and making dumb "mind" mistakes, fumbles by everyone, etc.

Yet, what do many of the boneheads around here do? Blame it on Ben Roethlisberger, of course!! Its all his fault.

Utterly ridiculous & insane.
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:58 PM   #99
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

A lot of those bubble screens are a result of Ben checking out of running plays. Those are usually called at the line by Ben, not the OC.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:08 PM   #100
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Ben was on pace for his best season yet and was in MVP discussion before the injury. Yeah, I know, if you keep ignoring this fact it'll eventually go away, right? Haley is an idiot and therefore shouldn't be listened to. Ben is never wrong. It's never his fault..
^^This part.^^

The Steelers were 6-3 and much improved in all offensive categories, specifically sacks allowed, third down completion percentage, and overall completion percentage. The offense was improving and BB was an MVP candidate.

Then the injury.

And, the offense suffered.

Upon BB's return, he never looked "right"... and the offense remained downhill.

Yet, as you pointed out, some people think that BB's injury had NO effect on the offense. Some people think that Byron & Charlie playing had NO effect on the offense. Some people think that during those last three games that BB was back to 100%, when we all know that he was playing through pain.

In other words, in some people's minds, despite starting 6-3, BB's injury had NO effect in the past six games. Uh... hmmm...
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