Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

[Ricco Suavez]

Originally Posted by cowherpower

and as if Ben had anything to do with that SEA win. Maybe great against a pathetic D like Arizona. That performance put him in the discussion as maybe one of game's best. Since then he has been average. But at least we got two rings. I will take that anyday.

No did not have a lot to do with winning against Seattle. You do know that there was a 16 game schedule played before hand and if you would take the time to actually look at his line in those three playoff games all on the road receding the Superbowl then You should appreciate what he did. I know, I watched those games, Cowher finally took the reins off and let him play and without Ben we DO NOT even sniff the SB that year or likely any other year. You fans that say he is so-so or no good kill me when you say he was just along for the ride, what makes anyone think we would of had a better or even equal QB, we went pretty much 25 years and O'Donnell was the only blimp in between. Ironic that O'Donnell has been vilified for his part in the SB loss to the Cowboys when without him we likely do not make it past the AFCCG.

[plenewken]

Originally Posted by cowherpower

and as if Ben had anything to do with that SEA win. Maybe great against a pathetic D like Arizona. That performance put him in the discussion as maybe one of game's best. Since then he has been average. But at least we got two rings. I will take that anyday.

He wasn't great against AZ either, no more than against the Packers. Against SEA, it was a complete disaster but he was young, in the next 2 SBs, against Warner and Rodgers, his numbers didn't come close to the 2 other QBs.
Ben hasn't been voted SB MVP for a very simple reason. He was not the most valuable player on the field, period.

[Ricco Suavez]

He was against the Cardinals even though you and the media boycot him. He makes the passes and the plays needed to pull that faulted defense bacon from the fire after they failed miserably by giving up two fourth quarter scores. He put not just one perfect pass in the corner but the one that Holmes did not catch the play before. Hate all you want but he was not only a Factor in that SB but the deciding Factor.

[Edman]

To date I still think Ben's finest seasons as Steelers QB was 2004/2005.

His performance in the 2005 Playoffs was nothing short of remarkable, and even more amazing it was just his second year. Ben has never come close to that level of performance since. It's time to face facts people. Ben is not a Quarterback well-suited to be the centerpiece of an offense. He's not a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning/Drew Brees type who takes command of the field where the Steelers can afford to have him sling it 30-40 times a game each and every week without fucking up. He's just not that kind of QB. Hell, he's not even Aaron Rodgers.

Ben isn't a hopeless cause. We forget he was on pace for his best season before his injury, because he was put into a structured offense where Haley took over the cerebral aspect of it and let him do the playing. He can make the plays for sure, but when it comes to the responsibility of LEADING an offense by himself, he can't do it. He's just not a good decision maker. It's time to go back to making him a cog in the offense instead of the centerpiece. Give him his responsibilities, let him manage the game, and that's it.

The solution is simple. The Running game MUST improve for next year.

[defence]

Originally Posted by SteelersCanada

Let's deal in facts, here.

Ben is 10 - 4 in postseason play, and has two Super Bowl rings and three appearances. Let's compare that to the other 'elite' quarterbacks in the NFL, shall we? Peyton is 9-10, Rodgers is 4-2, Brees is 5-4 and Eli is 8-3. Only Brady has a better postseason record than Benjamin right now and he has three rings which is telling. Sure, he doesn't play flashy or put up huge stats like those other guys, but he doesn't lose in the playoffs. He put this team on his back for the first half of the season and was single-handedly the reason why we were 6-3 and the hottest team in the NFL.

It's amazing what 7-8 will do to a franchise. One down year and we forget this is the same quarterback that brought us to three title games, winning two. This is the same guy that, since 2004, made us all believe we could win any game when he was at the helm.

Let's stop with the overreactions and freaking out, guys. One down season and we lose our minds - talk about being spoiled.

Thanks for a great read. To me it sounds like the majority of Steeler fans are very spoiled. I think everyone needs to take a breath and realize ; yes it was a bad season everywhere. Offence defence and coaching. But it is a game of inches. We could be easily on the other side in the playoffs or worse could be in tthe cellar. We are what we are; an 8 and 8 team. Ya i'm counting on them to trash the Browns. All the Ben haters; take a look at a team like the Jets. How many years have they wasted with Sanchez?? At least our boy has 3 superbowl showings and 2 rings. Last time I checked; we haven't done that since our last franchise qb; oh ya; they hated on him too!! Merry xmas guys

[harrison'samonster]

Originally Posted by Edman

To date I still think Ben's finest seasons as Steelers QB was 2004/2005.

His performance in the 2005 Playoffs was nothing short of remarkable, and even more amazing it was just his second year. Ben has never come close to that level of performance since. It's time to face facts people. Ben is not a Quarterback well-suited to be the centerpiece of an offense. He's not a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning/Drew Brees type who takes command of the field where the Steelers can afford to have him sling it 30-40 times a game each and every week without fucking up. He's just not that kind of QB. Hell, he's not even Aaron Rodgers.

Ben isn't a hopeless cause. We forget he was on pace for his best season before his injury, because he was put into a structured offense where Haley took over the cerebral aspect of it and let him do the playing.

My solution is simple. The Running game must improve.

I agree a lot with what you are saying. I think Ben is a great QB, but as you put it he's not the type to take command of a game. He can though when needed. Not every QB has to be Dan Marino.

The Running game MUST improve

[plenewken]

Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez

He was against the Cardinals even though you and the media boycot him. He makes the passes and the plays needed to pull that faulted defense bacon from the fire after they failed miserably by giving up two fourth quarter scores. He put not just one perfect pass in the corner but the one that Holmes did not catch the play before. Hate all you want but he was not only a Factor in that SB but the deciding Factor.

Whatever you say ..........

[Ricco Suavez]

This is for everyone who so easily tosses Ben's contributions to this teams Superbowl successes.

In 2005 in three road playoff games Ben was 14-19 3TD, 14-24 2 TD, and 21-29 2TD, he had 1 (that is one) int. for that three game spread. Totals of 49-72 7 TD and 1 INT. Those kind of numbers and that kind of QB play helped us in no small measure to even reach the first of the latest Superbowls. It is well known he did not play well in the SB, but to not at least acknowledge his accomplishments up til then are down right demeaning.

As far as MVP lets compare two QBs, ones stat line 19-34 1TD 0 INT. Game winning drive with 2:39 on clock and 83 yards to do so. He completes 5-9 and score with 39 seconds left.
Next QB 21-30 1TD 1 INT. Game winning drive with 2:24 left and 88 yards to go. He completes 6-8 has one completion negated with a hold and still scores with 42 seconds left.

First stats MVP Eli Manning, media darling, Second is Bens who the media WILL NOT even consider for the MVP. Only difference is Mannings defense did not give up a two score lead with 7 and half minutes to go in the game.

Thats what I say....................

[cowherpower]

Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez

No did not have a lot to do with winning against Seattle. You do know that there was a 16 game schedule played before hand and if you would take the time to actually look at his line in those three playoff games all on the road receding the Superbowl then You should appreciate what he did. I know, I watched those games, Cowher finally took the reins off and let him play and without Ben we DO NOT even sniff the SB that year or likely any other year. You fans that say he is so-so or no good kill me when you say he was just along for the ride, what makes anyone think we would of had a better or even equal QB, we went pretty much 25 years and O'Donnell was the only blimp in between. Ironic that O'Donnell has been vilified for his part in the SB loss to the Cowboys when without him we likely do not make it past the AFCCG.

No doubt. I wasn't referring to the season as a whole just the game. I also don't fault him as he was young. Afterall, you take that Uncle Rico throw for a INT people would talk differently about that game as that sure TD and his TD run would have been decent. I loved that Ben in the run up to the SEA game. Granted, I think if Palmer doesn't get hurt we lose that first one, but Ben was sick against DEN and played great against IND too. So, just talking about the singe SB game. Up to that point I am loving me some Ben. I continue to believe he performs well later culminating in ARI SB win. I am just pointing out that he did play poorly in that SB game and ARI was piss poor on D and we kinda lucked out in that game.

It's his play from that SB on that I am calling into question. Both his play on the field and behavior off of it. He doesn't seem like a guy who puts in the extra effort. Maybe all these injuries and criticism will make him work hard in offseason and we see the old Ben we all liked.
I still think the receiver ran the wrong route both times and O'Donnel was class act and didn't blame him Does anyone know the definitive proof?

[Edman]

At the current rate Ben is going, this is what he's in danger of becoming for the rest of his career wearing the B&G... Another Brett Favre.

http://youtu.be/M2Iw2YejS9A

http://youtu.be/YbbZ7_dGTTE

By the way, Favre used to have a reputation of being "clutch" and "magical" early on in his career in Green Bay, much like Ben has.