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Old 12-26-2012, 06:42 AM   #61
Ricco Suavez
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

If this is what Ben is becoming then we at least have two Superbowls added to the 4 from the 70's. I will be grateful for his contribution to those. Maybe it will not be 25 more years til we have a QB that can take us the extra step that is needed to win it all.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:45 AM   #62
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez View Post
If this is what Ben is becoming then we at least have two Superbowls added to the 4 from the 70's. I will be grateful for his contribution to those. Maybe it will not be 25 more years til we have a QB that can take us the extra step that is needed to win it all.
This is where Artie has to figure out what is more important unless he wants history to repeat - being right or winning.

During that 25 year span with no franchise QB it seemed the Steelers may have been more interested in being right. Granted, franchise QBs don't just grow on trees, but they didn't seem like they thought it was all that important of a position.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:26 PM   #63
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by plenewken View Post
What I look at is nb of passing TDs and Ben has 23 for the season vs. 39 for Brees, 35 for Rodgers, 34 for Manning and 31 for Brady. I don't have time to look at previous seasons but I'm 100% certain he's behind the same guys.

Is Ben a scoring machine? Nope.
Never mind that Ben's played 11-and-a-half games instead of 15 like the others. He's thrown 23 TD passes in 11-and-a-half games, which would put him on pace for 32 TD passes in 16 games. That's a lot of TD passes.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:36 PM   #64
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Never mind that Ben's played 11-and-a-half games instead of 15 like the others. He's thrown 23 TD passes in 11-and-a-half games, which would put him on pace for 32 TD passes in 16 games. That's a lot of TD passes.
That's not how the Steelers want to play though. Artie wants an offense that's run, run, pass, or run, bubble screen, pass. Basically, it's up to Ben to bail everyone out on third and long.

It's not Ben that has to change, it's the Steelers outdated philosophies.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:50 PM   #65
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
That's not how the Steelers want to play though. Artie wants an offense that's run, run, pass, or run, bubble screen, pass. Basically, it's up to Ben to bail everyone out on third and long.

It's not Ben that has to change, it's the Steelers outdated philosophies.
I agree now. The Steelers have to pass to set up the run.
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:53 PM   #66
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Why does Pittsburgh hate star QBs?

Why do so many people think you "ENJOY" failure when you criticize a player or coach? The only time I criticize a player is when I'm not happy with the results. I don't enjoy it.. I Friggen HATE it. I don't want to be pissed off at Mike Tomlin.. I don't want a HC that doesn't know what he's doing. I don't want to see our star QB to take a step backwards because he's a selfish primadonna. Lets be honest... it really looks like Ben was nothing but a self centered ***** since Arians was fired. Call me crazy but it looked an awful alot like Ben didn't have his heart into it this year. Maybe I'm wrong..but that's not ME enjoying it. That's not my fault.. It's Mike Tomlin's fault...It's Ben's fault.

I'm also not calling for their heads.. I realize they are human. So they can get better..they can learn from their mistakes. They can also get worse. So Lets see what they can do.

I loved Bill Cowher as a HC... not just because he built the steelers into a power house.. but because he learned from his mistakes. He had bad seasons and then rebounded from them. That IMO is a mark of a great coach.

Look around the league... every great coach had bad seasons and made mistakes.. they learn from it and the failure makes them better. What makes me worried about Tomlin is the fact that he's made the same mistakes 2 years in a row.... or actually got worse. A good leader will rally the troops for next season. Time will tell. If next year is another fail... that will be 3 consecutive seasons of failure.. how patient are you?
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:04 PM   #67
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by madtowndrunkard View Post
Why do so many people think you "ENJOY" failure when you criticize a player or coach? The only time I criticize a player is when I'm not happy with the results. I don't enjoy it.. I Friggen HATE it. I don't want to be pissed off at Mike Tomlin.. I don't want a HC that doesn't know what he's doing. I don't want to see our star QB to take a step backwards because he's a selfish primadonna. Lets be honest... it really looks like Ben was nothing but a self centered ***** since Arians was fired. Call me crazy but it looked an awful alot like Ben didn't have his heart into it this year. Maybe I'm wrong..but that's not ME enjoying it. That's not my fault.. It's Mike Tomlin's fault...It's Ben's fault.

I'm also not calling for their heads.. I realize they are human. So they can get better..they can learn from their mistakes. They can also get worse. So Lets see what they can do.

I loved Bill Cowher as a HC... not just because he built the steelers into a power house.. but because he learned from his mistakes. He had bad seasons and then rebounded from them. That IMO is a mark of a great coach.

Look around the league... every great coach had bad seasons and made mistakes.. they learn from it and the failure makes them better. What makes me worried about Tomlin is the fact that he's made the same mistakes 2 years in a row.... or actually got worse. A good leader will rally the troops for next season. Time will tell. If next year is another fail... that will be 3 consecutive seasons of failure.. how patient are you?
I'm sorry, but a season where you go 12-4 and make the playoffs is not a failure. I also don't get the pessimism. What is with this "if they fail next year" talk? Why would you even think that way? Why not think positively?
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:22 PM   #68
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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I'm sorry, but a season where you go 12-4 and make the playoffs is not a failure. I also don't get the pessimism. What is with this "if they fail next year" talk? Why would you even think that way? Why not think positively?

Any season were you don't win a playoff game is failure. Not only did we not win a playoff game - we lost to a Tebow lead Denver team. That loss was completely on the coaching staff... there was no excuse for that loss - none.
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:25 PM   #69
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

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Originally Posted by LLoyd&Greene View Post
I'm sorry, but a season where you go 12-4 and make the playoffs is not a failure. I also don't get the pessimism. What is with this "if they fail next year" talk? Why would you even think that way? Why not think positively?

I think I'm a realist. Right now I'm not happy we failed to win a single playoff game 2 years in a row. I'm not happy that we lost to the worst teams in the league... that in it self isn't so upsetting... it's the fact that we lost to the worst teams in the NFL with enough talent to be a Superbowl contender. Same as last year.

So it's perfectly natural to question what went wrong and find ways to fix it.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: Madden: Ben's at fault, but he's not the only one

Steelers fans are spoiled. Ben had a bad game. Big deal. He's still one of the top 6 QB in the league and I'm happy that he's a Steeler.

And when you have a franchise QB, you put him in his most comfortable situation for him to succeed. So far I don't think Tomlin and Haley did. It seems that Haley just wants to win the time of possession war instead of winning the game.
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