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Old 08-15-2006, 09:29 PM   #21
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

It is all about the Benjamins; ignore the "I want to stay" talk.

We talk a lot about players not giving a home team discount to play for the Steelers, but loyalty is not going to get you special bonus points with the Steelers.

Carnell Lake played out of position at CB after Woodson tore up his knee in 1995 and again in 1997 after the Steelers made one of their worst FA signings ever with whomever they signed to replace Woodson at CB(Woolfolk?) and benched by midseason. After those sacrifices Cowher said Lake would always be a Steeler, but Lake was gone after 1998 when the Steelers would not come close to what Jax offered.

The Steelers should not overpay but players including Taylor know it is a business and need to take care of themselves. Ike's gamble is that after 1year as a starter either he will develop into a higher priced player this year or teams now will start to pick on shortcomings that the Seahawks appeared to exploit and his value will go down.

My point is that after this season someone's negotiating position will be better, with Taylor and the Steelers being as close to a deal now as they ever will be. It appears Taylor's price is beyond what the Steelers will budget for DBs with Troy's new contract looming.

Could be Coclough and McFadden at CB in 2007.
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Old 08-15-2006, 09:49 PM   #22
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta Dan
It is all about the Benjamins; ignore the "I want to stay" talk.

We talk a lot about players not giving a home team discount to play for the Steelers, but loyalty is not going to get you special bonus points with the Steelers.

Carnell Lake played out of position at CB after Woodson tore up his knee in 1995 and again in 1997 after the Steelers made one of their worst FA signings ever with whomever they signed to replace Woodson at CB(Woolfolk?) and benched by midseason. After those sacrifices Cowher said Lake would always be a Steeler, but Lake was gone after 1998 when the Steelers would not come close to what Jax offered.

The Steelers should not overpay but players including Taylor know it is a business and need to take care of themselves. Ike's gamble is that after 1year as a starter either he will develop into a higher priced player this year or teams now will start to pick on shortcomings that the Seahawks appeared to exploit and his value will go down.

My point is that after this season someone's negotiating position will be better, with Taylor and the Steelers being as close to a deal now as they ever will be. It appears Taylor's price is beyond what the Steelers will budget for DBs with Troy's new contract looming.

Could be Coclough and McFadden at CB in 2007.
great points on lake but what did he ever do in jacksonville? he was at the end of his career. ike is at the beginning. sure the steelers missed out on plenty of good years out of woodson by letting him go but i think ike at this point of his career shows more upside than rod did when he walked.

word is colclough is having a really good camp. im sure ikes agent is meant to hear that word. if mcfadden proves to be what we want him to be we are in the exact same boat in 2-3 years. ben and troy will be signed and we will still be wondering which cb we will draft and develop with a 1st or 2nd round pick. the steelers cant hope to hit on them all, year after year.
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Old 08-15-2006, 10:28 PM   #23
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

True Tony they cant count on a hit every year... that is why they have to be smart about it and maybe overpaying for Taylor ( especially the price he is requesting) may not be very smart.. is amazing to me the conflict people throw out over $500 000 we save over keeping a younger cheaper punter over a vet ... but to pay Taylor 10 plus million signing bonus with a large base salary as well just doesnt make sense. I think that we forget the system the Steelers use makes our corners better...especially when we have our Blitzburgh mindset going and the QB makes mistakes rather than the D Back just making awesome plays. As i have said, I like Taylor, yes he does have potential.. but to pay him that kind of money on potential alone usually doesnt pan out in the NFL. Teams that do that are usually on some sportwriters list of "the worst moves" and a move like that often ends up in dead weight or baggage years down the road. I wouldnt sign him either if i was F/O at this point and wait and take a look at end of season cause what he is asking already is the most he will get even IF he had a standout year and was a PRO BOWL player and considered one of the best.
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Old 08-15-2006, 10:38 PM   #24
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

No matter how well he does this year, he's right, the Steelers won't break the bank on him. But I'm sure they will up the current offer if he has a great year. He knows this, so maybe that's why he hasn't accepted an offer yet. I agree with everyone that talk is cheap, but this could be why he's waiting. He wants to stay, but at the same time want as much as they'll give him. And that amount will be higher if he has a standout year.
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Old 08-15-2006, 10:52 PM   #25
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnightwriter07
True Tony they cant count on a hit every year... that is why they have to be smart about it and maybe overpaying for Taylor ( especially the price he is requesting) may not be very smart.. is amazing to me the conflict people throw out over $500 000 we save over keeping a younger cheaper punter over a vet ... but to pay Taylor 10 plus million signing bonus with a large base salary as well just doesnt make sense. I think that we forget the system the Steelers use makes our corners better...especially when we have our Blitzburgh mindset going and the QB makes mistakes rather than the D Back just making awesome plays. As i have said, I like Taylor, yes he does have potential.. but to pay him that kind of money on potential alone usually doesnt pan out in the NFL. Teams that do that are usually on some sportwriters list of "the worst moves" and a move like that often ends up in dead weight or baggage years down the road. I wouldnt sign him either if i was F/O at this point and wait and take a look at end of season cause what he is asking already is the most he will get even IF he had a standout year and was a PRO BOWL player and considered one of the best.
the steelers are in a predicament. the 10 mil signing bonus dont sound like so much when you consider what bonuses players will be getting in 6 years. granted i understand that is probably too much to pay now and the steelers wont do it for principal alone, but we must keep an eye toward the future, retaining good players before they become too expensive. resigning ben and troy at this point would save more money in the long run, if we do it now rather than wait till the future.

if ikes signing bonus is a hang up now we might as well kiss ben and troy goodbye cause the steelers simply dont keep the highest paid position players around. how are we gonna keep (and pay) ben top dollar if hes not putting up numbers like peyton or palmer, or winning as many champs as brady,not to mention players like vick, who is currently the highest paid player in the league. polamalu is gonna command about $6 -7 mil/ year when his time is up. will the steelers ante up? past history says no

our current coach's market value is to be the highest paid coach in the league. we see where that has gone. parker and our linemen need to be paid. faneca will need some more $$$ soon.

not only does this spell bad for taylor, it spells bad for just about every contributing veteran on the team. the steelers either buck their trend and start locking up good players before they are in their final years of their contracts or they resign them a bit early for the long term (which means gamble a bit), or they continue groming great young players for other teams to sign on a big contract.

if you make a mistake on a rod woodson you cant get him back (not saying the steelers didnt make him a fair offer). if you make a mistake on an ike taylor you can always cut or trade him. the steelers waiting and hoping that the price of cb's to drop is kind of like waiting for the price of oil to drop before you invest in exxon.

mu point is.... ikee is just asking for current market value. if the steelers cant give that to an average cb then they definitely wont give that to the best safety in the league nor a top 5 qb. (if you take into account bens 1st 2 year an agent could even argue the best qb)

keeping ben and troy could eventually mean players like farrior, faneca, and porter being cut. again.... a delimma.

Last edited by tony hipchest; 08-15-2006 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 08-16-2006, 01:05 AM   #26
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

Sombody send this to Ike.

http://steelersfever.com/editorials/0635.html
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Old 08-16-2006, 04:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony hipchest
great points on lake but what did he ever do in jacksonville? he was at the end of his career. ike is at the beginning. sure the steelers missed out on plenty of good years out of woodson by letting him go but i think ike at this point of his career shows more upside than rod did when he walked.

word is colclough is having a really good camp. im sure ikes agent is meant to hear that word. if mcfadden proves to be what we want him to be we are in the exact same boat in 2-3 years. ben and troy will be signed and we will still be wondering which cb we will draft and develop with a 1st or 2nd round pick. the steelers cant hope to hit on them all, year after year.
Good observation on Lake being at the end of the line when the Steelers let him go (other than Leon Searcy and Chad Brown most departing Steeler FAs have not done much after they leave). Although I did not make it clear, my point was loyalty is no factor when it comes to signing FAs - Lake got his Steelers' FA offer based on anticipated future performance and not as a life achievemnt award - it is strictly business.

On that point, Woodson had many good years left as a safety after he left Pittsburgh but my understanding is he went to the 49ers in 1997 for less $$ than the Steelers were willing to pay because he wanted to stay at CB and Cowher wanted to move him to safety. Rod thought it was in his interest to walk and he did so, but I think the Steelers are clean as to who made the decision to part company there.
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Old 08-16-2006, 04:29 PM   #28
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

wasnt that when Woodson was coming off his injury ?
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Old 08-16-2006, 08:56 PM   #29
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

Woodson blew out his knee in the opener against the Lions in 1995, came back and played in SB XXX against Dallas that same year (Lake later said that was an ego trip and actually was a distraction to a defense that had adjusted fairly well after Lake moved to CB), and then played the full 1996 season at CB, although not at his pre-injury All-Pro level.

After 1996 he went to the 49ers.
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Old 08-17-2006, 05:57 AM   #30
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Default Re: Talks resume -- not that they matter to Ike

OK i thought that with Woodson his injury has slowed him some and we wanted to move him to one of the safety positions due to that and he wasnt happy about it and left.
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