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Old 12-30-2012, 03:32 PM   #91
defence
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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Originally Posted by MACH1 View Post
I'm sure Cowher would tell you different.

So Tomlin is just supposed to sit there with his thumb up his ass because he is powerless to make adjustments or corrections?
No I think his job is to just stand there and collect a pay cheque. When you offence stinks as bad as this one; maybe he should have a little more input on what plays are being called. NO???? I see no passion in this team; and quite frankly; thank god it's over. It's not my descisions what Tomlin does this off season; but one thing is for sure. Haley is a joke and had we been playing anyone other than the browns today; we'd be 7 and 9. 3 straight runs with a 7 point lead inside there 10. Playing scared all year. For the people who want to use injuries as an excuse. EVERY team has them. We were hit hard; but ultimately what I saw today was what alot of people have been saying all year. Piss ass play calling!!
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Old 12-30-2012, 04:00 PM   #92
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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Originally Posted by PhantomJB93 View Post
A Head Coach is not a freaking dictator. Tomlin does not have absolute control over every aspect of this team, nor does any HC in the NFL. He does not have complete control over how the players perform on the field. He has significant input for sure, but he is not some guy playing Madden with an xbox controller and controlling everything that happened with this team this year.

I swear, by some of the logic I see on these boards, there is no reason for any assistant coaches to have jobs since Tomlin does everything for them anyway, and Tomlin plays every position on the field as well so we might as well cut the whole roster.
So if we use your analogy then Tomlin should get very little credit for Super Bowl 43(win)and 45(loss)
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:57 PM   #93
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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Originally Posted by Ricco Suavez View Post
These kind of statements are what really tick me off. No basis what so ever. Elway was the MASTER huh, I am going to put up Bens numbers for the first 9 years of his career against the MASTER.

Ben 125 games record of 86-39
Elway 130 games record of 81-48-1

Ben 2359 of 3739 attempts 63.1%
Elway 2201 of 4023 54.7%

Ben 188 TDs 108 Ints
Elway 148 Tds 140 Ints

Ben QB rating of 92.5 for his career
Elway at that time his low was 55 and his high was 84, far from a 92.5 average.

MASTER of the 4th Qtr Comeback (Elway) 26 game winning drives
Ben the same 26 Game winning drives.

Do not count Ben out yet, yea be disappointed in this year but like Elway his best years may be to come.
I really, REALLY hate to say this, but seriously... a disturbing number of Steeler fans seem to experience bouts of selective memory and/or collective amnesia; maybe more so than any fan base in the NFL today.

Before Be's injury: "Ben is having a career season. With our sh!tty D, this year's team would probably be among the worst in the league...if fact, without Ben, the Steelers would be lucky to win 5 of this year's teams. He's an elite QB that gives us our best chance to win - maybe our only chance!"

Post-Injury: "Tomlin and Ben are killing this franchise. He's a worthless and overrated QB."

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Old 12-30-2012, 08:24 PM   #94
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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Man, this is all screwed up. If Ben wasn't a million dollar QB like Graham and Tomczak then "killing the franchise" is acceptable? After the awesome resurgence of the 70's the Pittsburgh Steelers franchise was being put to death in the 80's regardless.

I will say however that I believe that while Ben is a good qb...the best since Bradshaw, he certainly is not elite.
Ben displays brilliance, then resorts to head scratching buffoonery.
Elite QB's are more consistent in the brilliace dept.

A Tom Brady or a Joe Montana would not have missed a wide open mike Wallace in the Super Bowl.
An elite QB would not have thrown game losing ints in back to back must win games.

Sure people say that everyone was to blame (it's a team sport blah, blah), but elite QBs are supposed to be the leaders, they're supposed to bring teams back from that type of adversity, not add to it.
People have pretty short memories. Brady has thrown game losing INTs or fumbles almost every year since the last time they won a Super Bowl. He had the ball last and blew it many times. EVERY QB makes boneheaded mistakes to lose games. EVERY SINGLE ONE even the so-called elite.
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:34 PM   #95
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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ok, so Ben is a 100 million dollar qb in this league, with the likes of Peyton and Eli, Brady, Rivers etc.

new crop of qb's in the league - Newton, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill etc... - all looking great

Ben should be in his prime all now...... is he?
I think this is the most ill-conceived post I have read on this forum, my own posts included. In one breath you say this:

The problem is, when their game is off, they can kill a season. They have killed more seasons than Super Bowls.

Then you go on to say this:

ok, so Ben is a 100 million dollar qb in this league, with the likes of Peyton and Eli, Brady, Rivers etc.

new crop of qb's in the league - Newton, Griffin, Luck, Wilson, Tannehill etc... - all looking great


You do realize that with the exception of Eli, Big Ben (whom according to you is partly responsible for ruining this franchise, and I don't see how one 8-8 season ruins a franchise), has won the most recent super bowl of all the QB's you have mentioned?
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Old 12-30-2012, 08:39 PM   #96
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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People have pretty short memories. Brady has thrown game losing INTs or fumbles almost every year since the last time they won a Super Bowl. He had the ball last and blew it many times. EVERY QB makes boneheaded mistakes to lose games. EVERY SINGLE ONE even the so-called elite.
You are right. Everyone remembers Joe Montana hitting receivers at the end of the game to win. They don't remember the incompletes before that because they are not memorable. That doesn't mean they didn't happen.

They act like they never through an incomplete pass or a game ending interception.

THEY ALL DO AND DID.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:34 PM   #97
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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I really, REALLY hate to say this, but seriously... a disturbing number of Steeler fans seem to experience bouts of selective memory and/or collective amnesia; maybe more so than any fan base in the NFL today.

Before Be's injury: "Ben is having a career season. With our sh!tty D, this year's team would probably be among the worst in the league...if fact, without Ben, the Steelers would be lucky to win 5 of this year's teams. He's an elite QB that gives us our best chance to win - maybe our only chance!"

Post-Injury: "Tomlin and Ben are killing this franchise. He's a worthless and overrated QB."

Do you know who else has a short term memory? Ben Roethlisberger.

Know how I know? Because he forgot that he was on his way to a career year and potential MVP season right before he ran his mouth about Haley's poor playcalling and inability to design plays for key players, and the lack of a no-huddle offense.
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Old 12-31-2012, 12:03 AM   #98
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

I'm super confused by the thread title, some of the thread posts and the stats that contradict points that people are trying to make (???), I guess. I will go elsehwere.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:11 AM   #99
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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Do you know who else has a short term memory? Ben Roethlisberger.

Know how I know? Because he forgot that he was on his way to a career year and potential MVP season right before he ran his mouth about Haley's poor playcalling and inability to design plays for key players, and the lack of a no-huddle offense.
Sometimes, when people complain, their concerns are legitimate. Just saying. Ben's been to three Super Bowls under two different coaches and systems. I get the impression that he's got a better grasp of knowing when things are going to work out over the long haul or not than you, me, and probably anyone else on this board.

Ben didn't have a short term memory this year so much as a handful of unwarranted opinions, and a bum rib. It happens. Even the best QBs in this league will have some not-so-great seasons, not-so-great games, not-so-great injuries, and some not-so-great public statements - all of which are things that they would surely love to forget - but guess what, that is life, my friend. So...get over it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:48 AM   #100
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Default Re: Tomlin and Ben are killing the franchise

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Sometimes, when people complain, their concerns are legitimate. Just saying. Ben's been to three Super Bowls under two different coaches and systems. I get the impression that he's got a better grasp of knowing when things are going to work out over the long haul or not than you, me, and probably anyone else on this board.

Ben didn't have a short term memory this year so much as a handful of unwarranted opinions, and a bum rib. It happens. Even the best QBs in this league will have some not-so-great seasons, not-so-great games, not-so-great injuries, and some not-so-great public statements - all of which are things that they would surely love to forget - but guess what, that is life, my friend. So...get over it.
How many legitimate Pro Bowl nominations does Ben have? How many seasons has he ranked in the top 5 in the League?
These 2 elements illustrate Ben's own skills and achievements, not team achievements.

Yes, Ben has 2 SB rings ......... so does Charlie Batch. Just sayin' ....... Based on his performance in the 3 Superbowls he played, Ben should consider himself very lucky to play for the Steelers, not the other way around.

Ben has never been ranked higher than 7th in passing yds. He once ranked 3rd in number of TDs, the rest is in the 2 digits rankings. He's a top 20% QB in the League. no question, but elite? Nope. Even with the weak schedule we had this season (and next season), Ben didn't make an impact.

I don't see $100M worth of production from Ben, sorry. I don't want to see him gone but I'm not creaming my pants watching him play.

You Ben fans tell me what I'm missing.
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