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Old 01-02-2013, 06:40 PM   #131
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

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Originally Posted by VASTEELER View Post
problem is 3 of the 4 qbs you have listed havent played in the super bowl as many times as ben has
And those teams actually allow their QBs to go to work early in a game instead of playing Marty ball for the majority of the game and hoping the QB bails them out at the end...
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Old 01-02-2013, 06:42 PM   #132
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

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And those teams actually allow their QBs to go to work early in a game instead of playing Marty ball for the majority of the game and hoping the QB bails them out at the end...

i cant argue with that.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:48 PM   #133
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

normally I don't give a shit about off the field issues players have, UNTIL it jeopardizes the fortunes of the team

Ben's motorcycle crash - never the same that season, hence - mediocre to bad play at QB position

Ben's 4 game suspension - they won in spite of him, but what org wants their franchise QB suspended for a quarter of season? What other franchise QBs get suspended for goodness sake? Imagine the Pats with no D - without Brady for 4 games? Think their D would help them go 3-1 without him. Speculative - but doubtful

His off the field choices have directly impacted the team on a few occasions. Look a little deeper - sometimes you are the same person off the field and in the locker room - which doesn't make much of a team player - as stated by a few current and former teammates.

It is directly connected.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:24 PM   #134
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

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normally I don't give a shit about off the field issues players have, UNTIL it jeopardizes the fortunes of the team

Ben's motorcycle crash - never the same that season, hence - mediocre to bad play at QB position

Ben's 4 game suspension - they won in spite of him, but what org wants their franchise QB suspended for a quarter of season? What other franchise QBs get suspended for goodness sake? Imagine the Pats with no D - without Brady for 4 games? Think their D would help them go 3-1 without him. Speculative - but doubtful

His off the field choices have directly impacted the team on a few occasions. Look a little deeper - sometimes you are the same person off the field and in the locker room - which doesn't make much of a team player - as stated by a few current and former teammates.

It is directly connected.
I hope you're just as disappointed with Harrison for his off the field issues.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:36 PM   #135
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

The Steelers routinely lead the league in points in the last two minutes of the first half. This is primarily when Ben goes no huddle, and controls everything that happens on the field. This is what is so baffleing about those of you that think he needs to be reigned in and strictly follow a rigid system. When he is allowed to call plays, make more line calls, and in general control all aspects of the offense, the Steelers score lots of points.

How is this not an obvious observation to all Steeler fans that watch the games?
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:53 PM   #136
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

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The Steelers routinely lead the league in points in the last two minutes of the first half. This is primarily when Ben goes no huddle, and controls everything that happens on the field. This is what is so baffleing about those of you that think he needs to be reigned in and strictly follow a rigid system. When he is allowed to call plays, make more line calls, and in general control all aspects of the offense, the Steelers score lots of points.

How is this not an obvious observation to all Steeler fans that watch the games?
DING DING DING DING DING!

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Old 01-03-2013, 05:06 PM   #137
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

So, let's break down why you're wrong.

1) Manning plays in a vertical offense where throwing it for 300+ is the norm. If he doesn't go for over 300, something went wrong.

Brady plays in a dink-n-dunk offense like Haley runs-- do we really want to compare Brady's stats to Ben's, while running the same offensive scheme?

2) Manning's offensive line is better than the Steelers right now by a considerable margin. Not when our guys are healthy, but they can't stay healthy.

Might have something to do with having to protect a QB that likes to hold the ball for 7 seconds or more each play, if the playcalling was left up to him.

3) Roethlisberger is 10 - 4 in the postseason compared to Manning's 9-10. So, great, he can win regular season games and throw for a ton of yardage, but chokes when the games actually matter. People think he's going to tear shit up in the playoffs but he hasn't really done it in his career. Regular season stats don't mean shit if you can't win big games.

This is a valid argument. However, I find it telltale that you cite Peyton's superior Oline as the "excuse" for his success, but we don't mention that Ben has been backed up by the league's #1 defense since like....he started playing in the NFL.

4) No one is saying that Ben isn't at fault, but asking him to be traded might in fact be the dumbest thing on these boards. He's not going anywhere.

Agreed. Ben has good and bad points, but to trade him would be dumb.

5) Ben has more Super Bowl rings than Manning does. Sure, it's a team game, but Ben is better in games that count than Manning is. Take your regular season stats, and I'll take Ben in the Super Bowl where he doesn't choke.

If he did not have the #5 ranked defense to bail him out that year-- SB XL would have been one of the biggest chokes in NFL history.

As far as I know, Manning has never posted a 22.9 passer rating in ANY game, postseason or otherwise.

Face it-- if a QB for one of the other 31 other teams posted a 22 passer rating in a postseason game, you would not be looking under every rock for an excuse or rationalization like you are now.

Again, not saying "FIRE BEN!". But as long as you "dumb yinzers" are going to gush and get wet between the legs when he wins games, you beter be fair and also give him his fair share of the blame.

Between 3 offensive coordinators, we have seen the same things, and Ben is the only common denominator:

1) Has to be kept on a "short leash", as the Whiz did for Ben's first 2 seasons (ironically, two of his best seasons) to keep him from going "sandlot".

When he does go "sandlot":

2) LOTS of sacks.

3) LOTS of injured Olinemen (between 3 coordinators, and 3 Olineman coaches).

4) Consistently scoring less than 20 points per game (held true for 2 Offensive coordinators).

5) Great 3rd down rate, but cannot put points on the board.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:26 PM   #138
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

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Originally Posted by pczach View Post
The Steelers routinely lead the league in points in the last two minutes of the first half.
Source please.

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Originally Posted by pczach View Post
This is primarily when Ben goes no huddle, and controls everything that happens on the field.
Nope. Historically, Ben goes no-huddle late in the 4th quarter when we are losing. That was true under Arians, and it is true under Haley.

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This is what is so baffleing about those of you that think he needs to be reigned in and strictly follow a rigid system. When he is allowed to call plays, make more line calls, and in general control all aspects of the offense, the Steelers score lots of points.
First off, I have NOT seen the Steelers "score lots of points" since we drubbed KC 45-7 in 2006. Routinely scoring 20 points or less is NOT "scoring lots of points" at all.

Secondly, I observed the exact opposite.

In the first half of the season, Haley was keeping a tight rein on Ben, and forcing him to go through his progressions on each play and get rid of the ball quicker.

The result? Ben was leading the NFL in 3rd down conversions, 2nd in ToP, we were starting to score more points, and Ben was in MVP conversations.

Then in the second half of the year, when Haley started listening to Mike Wallace and the stupid fans complaining about the lack of deep passing plays (despite the efficient offensive production we have not seen since 2004), he started giving Ben more leeway to run the offense.

The result? The usual Sandlot football-- sacks galore from holding the ball too long, injured Olinemen from trying to hold blocks for 9 seconds each play, lots of failed attempts at forcing the ball to Mike Wallace leading to even more picks and disasters, QB injured and out of the lineup for a month, and an offense that sputters until it coughs itself to life late in the 4th quarter of games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pczach;1073783H
ow is this not an obvious observation to all Steeler fans that watch the games?
I cannot imagine....

If after 2 or 3 offensive coordinators, you keep getting the same results-- maybe the problem is not so much the coaching?
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:29 PM   #139
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

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Originally Posted by pczach View Post
The Steelers routinely lead the league in points in the last two minutes of the first half. This is primarily when Ben goes no huddle, and controls everything that happens on the field. This is what is so baffleing about those of you that think he needs to be reigned in and strictly follow a rigid system. When he is allowed to call plays, make more line calls, and in general control all aspects of the offense, the Steelers score lots of points.

How is this not an obvious observation to all Steeler fans that watch the games?
The Steelers were 21st in the league in 4th quarter in scoring. Why does he have so much success in the 2nd but not in the 4th?

Are you aware of the terrible time of possession the Steelers have when Ben goes into the no-huddle?

Steelers 23:14 vs Chargers 36:46 Steelers 42 throws vs 17 runs. Steelers lose 34-24

The Chargers were able to run 19 more offensive plays than the Steelers.

Steelers 27:00 vs Cowboys 34:24 Steelers 40 throws vs 17 runs. Steelers lose 27-24

Wasn't Ben in the no huddle when he threw the final pick? I thought he was.

Why can't the defense bail us out when they are on the field for 35 minutes a game! This makes me angry! Where is their conditioning?
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:30 PM   #140
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Default Re: All these ditch Ben threads

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I hope you're just as disappointed with Harrison for his off the field issues.
Harrison's off-the-field issues have never caused him to miss any playing time. He had a fight with his girlfriend, but took steps to resolve the matter before it even went to court.
He took anger management classes, made up with his GF, and only had to do some petty stuff for the court like probation or counseling because she dropped the charges.
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