Hire Whisenhunt

[lloydwoodson]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

No, the offense's job was to possess the ball and protect the defense. That was clearly evident in the Denver game with the run, run, pass play calling. That's what Artie wanted from the team, and it's exactly what he got. The Steelers don't want to be an offensive team, they want to be a defensive team.

The Steelers ARE a defensive team! WTF??!!!

Since Ben joined the Steelers they ave had the number 1 total defense in the NFL 5 years out of 9; nd the number 1 scoring defense 4 out of 9 years!!!!

THE STEELERS ARE A DEFENSIVE TEAM.

2 DPOY on this team. When will Ben win his first NFL MVP?

Rodgers has his. Brady has his. Manning has his. I thought Ben was elite?

Brady took the 31st defense to the superbowl last year. What would Ben's record be if he had the 31st defense in the league? How many of those 14-10 and 13-9 games would he continue to win vs Cleveland?

I can't believe GoFor7 has posted 20 000 times on this forum. That's a whole lot of ignorance.

[GoFor7]

[QUOTE=lloydwoodson;1072654]

The Steelers ARE a defensive team! WTF??!!!

Since Ben joined the Steelers they ave had the number 1 total defense in the NFL 5 years out of 9; nd the number 1 scoring defense 4 out of 9 years!!!!

THE STEELERS ARE A DEFENSIVE TEAM.

Right, and because of that they want to play a ball-control offense - which doesn't result in many points.

2 DPOY on this team. When will Ben win his first NFL MVP?

Rodgers has his. Brady has his. Manning has his. I thought Ben was elite?

It's been discussed before on this forum - the standard for picking super bowl MVP is rather confusing. The year before Eli put up similar numbers to Ben in the super bowl and got the MVP. If Ben didn't deserve the MVP, nor did Eli.

Brady took the 31st defense to the superbowl last year. What would Ben's record be if he had the 31st defense in the league?

Depends. Would the Steelers still play a ball-control offense? The Patriots actually let Brady try to win the game early so he doesn't always have to bail them out in the end. Hey speaking of which, Brady did not bail the Patriots out in the end of super bowl 46! BOOOOOOOOOO! HE STINKS! HIS LEGACY IS TARNISHED! He's lost twice as many super bowls as Ben did!

How many of those 14-10 and 13-9 games would he continue to win vs Cleveland?

Ben generally blows Cleveland out. That basis is without merit.

I can't believe GoFor7 has posted 20 000 times on this forum. That's a whole lot of ignorance.

For people with small IQs, big numbers look the same don't they?

[lloydwoodson]

[QUOTE=GoFor7;1072660]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

Right, and because of that they want to play a ball-control offense - which doesn't result in many points.



It's been discussed before on this forum - the standard for picking super bowl MVP is rather confusing. The year before Eli put up similar numbers to Ben in the super bowl and got the MVP. If Ben didn't deserve the MVP, nor did Eli.

Haley's "ball-control offense" resulted in more scoring than Arians "let Ben be Ben" offense.

Roethlisberger's stat line in his 3rd game in Haley's "ball-control" system: 384 yards on 49 pass attempts with 4 tds. Poor job of ball control what with all that scoring. Steelers lost that game btw.

I wasn't talking about superbowl MVPs I was talking about regular season MVPs - I know it is confusing because Roethlisberger doesn't have either but try to follow along.

[bornaSteelersfan]

Originally Posted by lloydwoodson

I loved those gadget plays. One of those gadget plays was the pass from ARE to Ward in SB XL. ARE was the Steelers best qb that game and if he hadn't been I don't think the Steelers win that game.

I loved it too. The Wiz won't be back here, though. Haley will most likely stay to finish what he started and get a SB ring.

[Killer]

please please please Arizona - take Haley!


and The Whiz's whole offensive staff was shit-canned, and no, I don't want any of them

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by Killer

please please please Arizona - take Haley!


and The Whiz's whole offensive staff was shit-canned, and no, I don't want any of them

Whiz won't come here - too much bad blood between him and the organization.

[NSMaster56]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

This year, the offense did not give themselves enough opportunities to get into the red zone because they were more concerned with ball-control. They figured it's better to possess for a while and punt rather than score quickly and risk sending a tired defense back onto the field.

That did appear to be true. The 2012 Steelers lacked the 'take the lead' initiative from the 04-11 squads under Whisenhunt/Arians.

However, as pointed out by LW, they still scored in line with those squads.

Granted, he didn't post overall offensive stats (DVOA, yards, efficiency, etc.), but from a strictly points perspective the O was about on par with the past. (Although it would be interesting to see and compare all the other stats, too.)

Still, as a bit of a stats nerd myself, here's the Steelers PF/PA since 2006:

22.1 / 19.7
24.6 / 16.8
21.7 / 13.9
23.0 / 20.3
23.4 / 14.5
20.3 / 14.2
21.0 / 19.6

Based on that, it's not like the O was drastically different from years past. Haley's O was about 25 points off of Arians' AVG for the year (which is ~1.6 points per game).

Now, depending on when those 25 'missing points' were scored they could have earned the Steelers an extra win or 2 or 3, but that's a pointless argument (who the heck knows when/where those points come? They could have become 'garbage time' points.)

All that really can be said is that the O was as ineffective as ever and that the D slipped a little (although those PA/PG doesn't factor in ST TD's)---although the D slipping is probably a result of the ineffective O (as you pointed out).

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by NSMaster56

That did appear to be true. The 2012 Steelers lacked the 'take the lead' initiative from the 04-11 squads under Whisenhunt/Arians.

However, as pointed out by LW, they still scored in line with those squads.

Granted, he didn't post overall offensive stats (DVOA, yards, efficiency, etc.), but from a strictly points perspective the O was about on par with the past. (Although it would be interesting to see and compare all the other stats, too.)

Still, as a bit of a stats nerd myself, here's the Steelers PF/PA since 2006:

22.1 / 19.7
24.6 / 16.8
21.7 / 13.9
23.0 / 20.3
23.4 / 14.5
20.3 / 14.2
21.0 / 19.6

Based on that, it's not like the O was drastically different from years past. Haley's O was about 25 points off of Arians' AVG for the year (which is ~1.6 points per game).

Now, depending on when those 25 'missing points' were scored they could have earned the Steelers an extra win or 2 or 3, but that's a pointless argument (who the heck knows when/where those points come? They could have become 'garbage time' points.)

All that really can be said is that the O was as ineffective as ever and that the D slipped a little (although those PA/PG doesn't factor in ST TD's)---although the D slipping is probably a result of the ineffective O (as you pointed out).

I would say the reason for the points/game average being roughly the same between Arians and Haley were for different reasons.

Under Arians, the Steelers moved the ball down field. They had a "grab a game by the throat" mentality. The problems were once they got into the red zone they didn't score enough TDs. Had they done that, Artie would've had a hard time firing Arians despite his shortcomings.

Under Haley, red zone play was a bit more creative, but they didn't get into the red zone enough. They were so focused on ball-control that they took opportunities away from themselves (such as keeping all the WRs to 5-10 yard routes beyond the LOS). They didn't have any killer instinct. They just hoped that by possessing the ball the defense would keep them in it and Ben would pull a miracle out of his ass in the end.

[NSMaster56]

Originally Posted by GoFor7

I would say the reason for the points/game average being roughly the same between Arians and Haley were for different reasons.

Under Arians, the Steelers moved the ball down field. They had a "grab a game by the throat" mentality. The problems were once they got into the red zone they didn't score enough TDs. Had they done that, Artie would've had a hard time firing Arians despite his shortcomings.

Under Haley, red zone play was a bit more creative, but they didn't get into the red zone enough. They were so focused on ball-control that they took opportunities away from themselves (such as keeping all the WRs to 5-10 yard routes beyond the LOS). They didn't have any killer instinct. They just hoped that by possessing the ball the defense would keep them in it and Ben would pull a miracle out of his ass in the end.

Agreed.

The style change is the difference. It's just hard to know if it's all scheme or a symptom of a lack of talent.

Stats aren't a bible and it's hard to figure them all out. Maybe under Arians this year the Steelers would have scored those 'missing 25 points' and doing so would have led to the D allowing less, too (and/or their style would have eaten up more time to leave the D rested or otherwise left the opposition empty-handed). Who knows?

The only consistent factors in the Steelers failures, regardless of who the HC or OC has been, has been lack of a consistent OL, RB (since Fast Willie retired) and poor ST play.

Should the team fix one of the first two problems it should solve the 'grab a game by the throat' mentality. (It better!)

[GoFor7]

Originally Posted by NSMaster56

Agreed.

The style change is the difference. It's just hard to know if it's all scheme or a symptom of a lack of talent.

Stats aren't a bible and it's hard to figure them all out. Maybe under Arians this year the Steelers would have scored those 'missing 25 points' and doing so would have led to the D allowing less, too (and/or their style would have eaten up more time to leave the D rested or otherwise left the opposition empty-handed). Who knows?

The only consistent factors in the Steelers failures, regardless of who the HC or OC has been, has been lack of a consistent OL, RB (since Fast Willie retired) and poor ST play.

Should the team fix one of the first two problems it should solve the 'grab a game by the throat' mentality. (It better!)

It'll be interesting to see what they do against the Patriots in 2013. Will they attack the Patriots like they did in 2011? Or will they play Marty ball like they did in the seasons before 2011?

Health is certainly part of the problem, but the mentality also has to change. They need to take over the game and not just play ball control and hope the defense can keep them in it.