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Old 01-01-2013, 02:19 PM   #41
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

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because having an elite quarterback doesn't matter if your D is good, right?
It sure didn't matter against Seattle that our QB wasn't "elite" but it was not even mid-tier.

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I'd like you to explain the fact that when Eli and Ben both have down seasons, both the Giants and Steelers miss the playoffs. I'm going to go ahead and assume this is a coincidence though, right? Maybe the D had down years and that's what caused us to miss it.
I'd like you to tell us when exactly the Steelers had a good season offense wise. By good, I mean top tier in points scored BY THE OFFENSE.
And after you've found it, I'd like to you tell us when exactly has the Steelers O been ranked higher than the D.
This should keep you busy for a while.
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Old 01-01-2013, 02:46 PM   #42
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

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It sure didn't matter against Seattle that our QB wasn't "elite" but it was not even mid-tier.
He was in his second season and is still the youngest quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl. He was young and inexperienced. I'd love for you to point me to a second year quarterback that is considered elite. It's ok, I'll wait. For you to say he wasn't mid-tier after that performance in the playoffs (excluding the Seahawk game) is insane. Take the "I Hate Ben" glasses off and look at his performance in those games.

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I'd like you to tell us when exactly the Steelers had a good season offense wise. By good, I mean top tier in points scored BY THE OFFENSE.
And after you've found it, I'd like to you tell us when exactly has the Steelers O been ranked higher than the D.
This should keep you busy for a while.
Again, they don't need to put up 30+ points a game and tons of yardage because that's not the game that Ben plays. The fans here love, love, love the 'power run' and 'smashmouth football'. When you play this style of football as we're accustomed to, we're not going to pile up the points. Ben is just starting to hit his prime and the offense is starting to be built around him with a decent offensive line that can hold a pocket for more than 3 seconds. His numbers are going to go up, just give it time. Asking him to put up Brady numbers is unrealistic and crazy - we don't play that style of offense and don't have guys named Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez and Wes Welker that will gain yards upfield consistently.

I'm not saying our defense wasn't - and probably still is - amazing. But, asking our offense to put up points and yardage when most of our fanbase wants a 'run it up the middle! play smashmouth!' style of offense isn't realistic. How about we play pass-first and acquire a legitimate Running Back so Ben doesn't have to make magic happen on third down every time.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:01 PM   #43
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

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"...5 years of horrible game plans and play calling..."?


Do you seriously believe that?

5 winning seasons
Only one of them with less than 10 wins (3 with 12 wins)
2 Super Bowl appearances
1 Super Bowl win.

Yeah, that's pretty horrible stuff alright!

And let's not forget THIS year with Indy; 11-5 and missing a Division Title by just one game with a young team and a rookie QB AND while serving double-duty as both the Head Coach and the OC - and the team LOVES him not to mention that his name is popping up all over the place for a HC job.

Yeah, this Arians dude is a real cancer!
yes i absolutely do believe that...if you wanna give arians credit for bens scrambling ability and turning chicken shit into chicken salad then go ahead....i'm not.
how many of those plays on that game winning super bowl drive do you think were done the way arians drew em up ?

oh and lets just conveniently leave dick lebeaus league leading defenses out of the conversation....its not like they pulled arians offense out of the fire more often than not...
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:01 PM   #44
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

I did originally type this in another thread, but maybe it would be more appropriate here (or in the re-hire Whiz thread):

I love Ben - I think that's obvious - but I don't think he's very good at accepting criticism when it comes from others. Sure, he'll criticize himself - but, when you look at "verbally tougher" OCs like Haley and Whiz, and their "relationship" with Ben, I think the proof is in the pudding.

Ben loved Arians bc the dude was a pushover who was more than willing to let Ben be Ben. Obviously, this wasn't always a bad thing - Ben had some great seasons under Arians - but, also some pretty mediocre ones. He had an excellent start with Whiz, but not always (2006 anyone?) - with just one season under Haley, Ben started out great but faltered post-injury midseason.

I think the point I'm trying to make here is that Ben is a great QB, but like Terry - he comes with his own set of flaws. And one of them is not taking constructive criticism as professionally as he should. He's, overall, a top-notch QB regardless of whoever's calling the plays - but he can be a real pr*ck towards anyone who doesn't want to be "best buds"...and that shouldn't be Haley (or any other OC's job, for that matter).
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:06 PM   #45
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

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It sure didn't matter against Seattle that our QB wasn't "elite" but it was not even mid-tier.



I'd like you to tell us when exactly the Steelers had a good season offense wise. By good, I mean top tier in points scored BY THE OFFENSE.
And after you've found it, I'd like to you tell us when exactly has the Steelers O been ranked higher than the D.
This should keep you busy for a while.
You are one of those who point to Ben's first SB as a barometer of his play yet refuse to even mention his playoff success the same year. Thats ok that would weaken your argument.

Top ten Pittsburgh offenses as far as points 07,05,02,01,97,95,95,85,84,82,81, and finally 79 where we was #1. I would like to point out that other the 79 season the only top 5 was 1995, when we had a passing offense with O'Donnell. Ohter top ten season were mostly 7th, 8th, or 9th.

Season that have been not so good 12,11,08,98,90,89,87. The 1998 season we ranked 28th, 89 and 90 were back to back seasons of 24th and 20th.

I posted before the season started , to take caution with all the hype of a high scoring offense. The success of the WR from the season before and the addition of Haley had peoples head giddy from thoughts of 30+ games. Those kind of games are just not in the Steeler DNA. We have always played tough defense and played close to the vest offensively. We do not run up scores that lend to inflated averages. We have always played close games, not just since Ben or Tomlin have appeared but throughout our franchise history. We played close games this season and we lost most of them, if you want to blame Ben for that than so be it, he did not pull the teams collective ass from the fire this year. We have used a ton of cap money in the past securing defensive players, Woodley (highest yearly salary on the team) Timmons, Harrison, Troy to name a few. We are just now signing people other than the QB to help on offense (although I agree Heath was not used properly for years). We are eventually getting some quality bodies on the OL that was left in disarray for too many years. One season does not kill a franchise, and history has shown the Steelers bounced back as well as any one, we do not stay down long. How bout the Bills a dynasty in the 90's and now an afterthought. (yes I know they did not win a SB, but 4 years in row as AFC champions qualify). We will be back, and it will be with Ben and Tomlin leading the offense and team.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:49 PM   #46
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

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He was in his second season and is still the youngest quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl. He was young and inexperienced. I'd love for you to point me to a second year quarterback that is considered elite. It's ok, I'll wait. For you to say he wasn't mid-tier after that performance in the playoffs (excluding the Seahawk game) is insane. Take the "I Hate Ben" glasses off and look at his performance in those games.
How could have Ben been elite after 2 seasons, he's not even elite after 8? Just so you know, for me elite is being consistently ranked in the top 5.

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Again, they don't need to put up 30+ points a game and tons of yardage because that's not the game that Ben plays. The fans here love, love, love the 'power run' and 'smashmouth football'. When you play this style of football as we're accustomed to, we're not going to pile up the points. Ben is just starting to hit his prime and the offense is starting to be built around him with a decent offensive line that can hold a pocket for more than 3 seconds. His numbers are going to go up, just give it time. Asking him to put up Brady numbers is unrealistic and crazy - we don't play that style of offense and don't have guys named Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez and Wes Welker that will gain yards upfield consistently.
I must have missed something. What "game" Ben plays for $11.7M/year? It's not football? The fans here, and I mean here as in Pittsburgh, love dominant football. They couldn't care less if it's running or passing, what they love is an offense that can make a statement early in the game and capable of putting points on the board. This means FGs and Defensive INTs don't count for the offense and even if the team wins, fans know who put the points on the board. They're not blind nor stupid.

Now, Gronkowski and Hernandez have nothing that Miller doesn't have and Welker has nothing that Wallace/Brown don't have, except a QB that can quickly hit them in stride and on the numbers.

I contend that one of the main reasons for our poor passing performance is our passer. Ben's ball is very often wobbly, therefore tougher to catch than a pure spiral, and very often it is also badly overthrown or underthrown. What use is a rocket like Wallace if he has to slow down, if not come back to catch Ben's pass?
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:54 PM   #47
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I am going to only address two things you typed. First I think Heat is the equal of nearly every TE in the league, but up to this year he has been used to help block and with the injuries to the line he has had to once again be used more in blocking schemes than passing,. Second Heath is only one person, Gronk and Hernandez are a two headed monster. Third Wes Welker Is one of the toughest and most sure handed receivers in the game, (a miniature Heath) our other receivers do not even come close to this type of possession receiver, Hines on the other hand was similar but older when here and he had pretty good seasons.
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Old 01-01-2013, 03:58 PM   #48
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

Don't disguise this as anything other than ANOTHER thread bashing Ben Roethlisberger, because THAT is exactly what it is.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:15 PM   #49
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

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I must have missed something. What "game" Ben plays for $11.7M/year? It's not football? The fans here, and I mean here as in Pittsburgh, love dominant football. They couldn't care less if it's running or passing, what they love is an offense that can make a statement early in the game and capable of putting points on the board. This means FGs and Defensive INTs don't count for the offense and even if the team wins, fans know who put the points on the board. They're not blind nor stupid.
This isn't true. Why do you think there's so many topics on bringing in a Running Back that "runs like Jerome Bettis!" or "we need another Jerome Bettis!"? It's because they love the up-the-gut, North-South running and Haley is giving them exactly what they're asking for. Now, seeing as it's 2012 not 1978, it's not going to work as well as we'd all like. We have an elite (yes, elite) quarterback and we're not using him.

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Now, Gronkowski and Hernandez have nothing that Miller doesn't have and Welker has nothing that Wallace/Brown don't have, except a QB that can quickly hit them in stride and on the numbers.
This just simply isn't true. Heath Miller is a great Tight End, but he's not on the same level as Gronkowski - he just isn't. There's no other TE's in the league that are on his level, including Gonzalez. As for Welker, he has more reliable hands than Wallace and usually makes the big catch. There's a reason why Welker is going to be wanted by more teams than Wallace is - he's more reliable.

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I contend that one of the main reasons for our poor passing performance is our passer. Ben's ball is very often wobbly, therefore tougher to catch than a pure spiral, and very often it is also badly overthrown or underthrown. What use is a rocket like Wallace if he has to slow down, if not come back to catch Ben's pass?
This just isn't correct, either. Ben has a cannon of an arm and took how much shit for overthrowing Wallace in the Super Bowl? He's overthrown Mike more times than not and for you to say Wallace has to "come back to the ball" isn't true. I like how you keep saying "poor performance" by Ben, as if he wasn't the reason why we had 6 wins in the first 10 weeks of the season. He put this team on his back and won games without any help from the defense.

You're picking on Ben's spiral? That's reaching, buddy.
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Old 01-01-2013, 04:39 PM   #50
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Default Re: An Apology to Arians! I Was Wrong!

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I posted before the season started , to take caution with all the hype of a high scoring offense. The success of the WR from the season before and the addition of Haley had peoples head giddy from thoughts of 30+ games. Those kind of games are just not in the Steeler DNA. We have always played tough defense and played close to the vest offensively.
That's what I've been saying all along, but it seems to go in one ear and out the other.

Wouldn't you saying playing that kind of style is tempting fate? In 2008 the Steelers were fortunate to see Ben bail them out as many times as he did. Can't expect him to do it every time. The Steelers need to wake up and realize that philosophy is outdated.

Whenever one of the Ben haters mentions how great Brady and Manning are, they don't seem to realize that those QBs don't play in offenses that play close to the vest (or if they do they ignore it because it doesn't fit their Ben bashing argument). Those QBs are known for greatness because their teams let them win the game early on. They don't fret over time of possession, they put emphasis on scoring.

You'd think the Steelers would learn after getting humiliated by teams like that time after time - but perhaps they worry more about being right when playing those teams.
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