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Old 01-07-2013, 08:47 AM   #101
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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Originally Posted by lloydwoodson View Post
I think moving Gilbert to guard next year is the answer.

Starks DeCastro Pouncey Gilbert Adams

Someone has to be the odd man out if Starks stays and I hope he does.
I agree: Gilbert to LG is a good idea, if Starks returns.

Put the best five linemen on the field.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:09 AM   #102
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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I think moving Gilbert to guard next year is the answer.

Starks DeCastro Pouncey Gilbert Adams

Someone has to be the odd man out if Starks stays and I hope he does.

Legursky and Foster the main backups. Of course someone will get hurt and everything will change.
I'm not sure Gilbert is a better guard than Foster. I think Foster is underrated here.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:40 AM   #103
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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I'm not sure Gilbert is a better guard than Foster. I think Foster is underrated here.
We absolutely need Gilbert to step up because A. Starks won't be around forever, if any longer for that matter and I wouldn't be shocked to see someone else be asked to play multiple positions again (even though I really just want good to dominant at each position) B. Someone is inevitably going to go down and while I like Legursky as a career fill-in, I believe Gilber > Legursky when committed in terms of more than capable bodies.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:15 AM   #104
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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I'm not sure Gilbert is a better guard than Foster. I think Foster is underrated here.
Foster is decent but is he better at G than Gilbert who seems unable to be effective at RT let alone people thinking he might develop into a LT. More of a criticism against Gilbert than Foster. Foster is a FA who may or may not return.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:15 AM   #105
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
Total non-passing TDs by NFL team (2012)

33 - New England
28 - Washington
25 - Carolina
24 - Houston
22 - Baltimore
22 - Seattle
21 - Chicago
21 - Minnesota
21 - New York Giants
21 - San Francisco
20 - Denver
19 - Tennessee
18 - Miami
17 - Detroit
17 - Indianapolis
17 - New York Jets
17 - Tampa Bay
16 - Buffalo
15 - Cincinnati
15 - Cleveland
15 - New Orleans
14 - Arizona
14 - Atlanta
13 - Green Bay
13 - San Diego
12 - Dallas
11 - Philadelphia
10 - Kansas City
10 - St. Louis
9 - Pittsburgh
6 - Jacksonville
4 - Oakland


This season, the Steelers ranked 22nd in the NFL in TDs scored, with 36. Of those 36, 27 were scored by passing, eight by running, one by defense, and zero by special teams. Only four teams had fewer TD runs. Only three teams had fewer defensive TDs. No team had fewer special teams TDs. And as you can see on the chart above, only two teams had fewer non-passing TDs overall.

Conversely, only seven teams had more TD passes than the Steelers this season -- and this is with Ben Roethlisberger missing three-and-a-half games, and the backup QBs combining for one lonely TD pass.

As I've illustrated elsewhere, Roethlisberger was on pace to throw 33 TD passes in 16 games at the rate he was throwing them when he played.* If the Steelers had 33 TD passes, they'd rank 5th in the NFL in that regard, but still only 15th in total TDs. If they could rank in the top five in TD passes but still only be midpack in total TDs, then this proves that the scoring problem has nothing at all to do with the passing game.

It should also be noted that eight of the top dozen teams on that chart are playoff teams, but only two of the bottom dozen are. For that matter, only four playoff teams have scored fewer than 20 TDs by means other than the pass. In other words, there's a strong correlation between versatility in scoring TDs and the likelihood of making the playoffs.

(*: I am fully aware that playing 16 games could have resulted in fewer than 33 TD passes for Roethlisberger, but it could have just as easily resulted in more than 33 TD passes, for all we know.)
Maybe the mash unit of an offensive line we trotted out there may be more of an indicator? Like when the priority of the linemen is to keep your franchise QB healthy, working on pass protection might be a priority, meaning less practice snaps and less study for running plays.
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:23 AM   #106
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

I admit I havent read through all the posts of this thread but I think based on the title, it DOES have something to do with the passing game but its just not limited to that. Our offebse is SUPER predictable almost every time we get the ball. Run on first down, run on 2nd down, pass on 3rd down. If the defense KNOWS how you are going to run your offense they need not bother trying to read the formation or play. The biggest issue with our offense is the unpredictability and the lack of a consistent offensive line. The second biggest problem is the #right of drops our WR's had this season. We need some consistency and 'surprise'to bqck in our offense.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:22 AM   #107
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

For those of you assholes still clamoring for Bruce Arians, allow me to slap you with some knowledge...


Ben Roethlisberger's TD passes per game per season

2007: 2.13
2008: 1.10
2009: 1.73
2010: 1.42
2011: 1.40
2012: 2.08


Those 2.08 TD passes per game this season came despite an offensive line and running game that were markedly inferior to what Roethlisberger benefited from in 2007. And I'm supposed to believe that Todd Haley's system won't work, or that Roethlisberger is stupid and/or uncoachable? Bullshit!

Somebody earlier talked about Roethlisberger being the common denominator on underachieving offenses. He's not the only one. You know what else is? A below-average supporting cast on offense. The offensive line has been bad since 2008. The RBs have all lacked either talent or commitment. The TEs were underutilized in the passing game until this season. The WRs have been overrated. (Yes, I said overrated. Hines Ward was the only consistent one. Antwaan Randle El, Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace all made as many bonehead plays as good plays.)

Every other QB who's supposedly better than Roethlisberger has gotten more help from his teammates on offense in the last five seasons than Roethlisberger has. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers have all had better offensive lines. Manning and Rodgers have had better WRs. Brees and Rodgers have been playing in better systems (although Haley's system is plenty good, contrary to popular opinion.) Even Matt Ryan has had a solid offensive line, two awesome WRs and a Hall-of-Fame TE, plus a good system now with Dirk Koetter. Plain and simple, Roethlisberger has had the worst supporting cast of any top-tier QB in the last five seasons.

And I'm not letting Arians off the hook for it either. At the end of the 2007 season, Roethlisberger's career TD percentage was 5.8%. At the end of the 2011 season, it was 5.0%. That's a precipitous decline. Enter Haley, and Roethlisberger's TD percentage this season was 5.8%, which is a nice jump, especially given the fact that his supporting cast wasn't any better this season than it was in the previous four.

Ben Roethlisberger ain't the problem, period, and neither is Todd Haley. The problem is everybody else on offense not named Heath Miller or Maurkice Pouncey.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:52 AM   #108
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
For those of you assholes still clamoring for Bruce Arians, allow me to slap you with some knowledge...


Ben Roethlisberger's TD passes per game per season

2007: 2.13
2008: 1.10
2009: 1.73
2010: 1.42
2011: 1.40
2012: 2.08


Those 2.08 TD passes per game this season came despite an offensive line and running game that were markedly inferior to what Roethlisberger benefited from in 2007. And I'm supposed to believe that Todd Haley's system won't work, or that Roethlisberger is stupid and/or uncoachable? Bullshit!

Somebody earlier talked about Roethlisberger being the common denominator on underachieving offenses. He's not the only one. You know what else is? A below-average supporting cast on offense. The offensive line has been bad since 2008. The RBs have all lacked either talent or commitment. The TEs were underutilized in the passing game until this season. The WRs have been overrated. (Yes, I said overrated. Hines Ward was the only consistent one. Antwaan Randle El, Santonio Holmes and Mike Wallace all made as many bonehead plays as good plays.)

Every other QB who's supposedly better than Roethlisberger has gotten more help from his teammates on offense in the last five seasons than Roethlisberger has. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers have all had better offensive lines. Manning and Rodgers have had better WRs. Brees and Rodgers have been playing in better systems (although Haley's system is plenty good, contrary to popular opinion.) Even Matt Ryan has had a solid offensive line, two awesome WRs and a Hall-of-Fame TE, plus a good system now with Dirk Koetter. Plain and simple, Roethlisberger has had the worst supporting cast of any top-tier QB in the last five seasons.

And I'm not letting Arians off the hook for it either. At the end of the 2007 season, Roethlisberger's career TD percentage was 5.8%. At the end of the 2011 season, it was 5.0%. That's a precipitous decline. Enter Haley, and Roethlisberger's TD percentage this season was 5.8%, which is a nice jump, especially given the fact that his supporting cast wasn't any better this season than it was in the previous four.

Ben Roethlisberger ain't the problem, period, and neither is Todd Haley. The problem is everybody else on offense not named Heath Miller or Maurkice Pouncey.
Great post!!!

I agree: it was neither BB nor Haley; it was a rib/shoulder injury AND the execution (or lack thereof) of the WRs & RBs.
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:57 AM   #109
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

good points

I'll still argue that the QB has to work on not reverting back to holding the ball for too long, but hell - I would start reverting back to some habits (not always bad ones) too if I was feeling as shitty as he probably felt after the injury
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:59 AM   #110
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

The Steelers lack killer instinct. Get up 7 or more, they pull the plug on the offense. Hate that philosophy. Bury the opponent, don't "keep it close and find a way to win" unless you are severely overmatched, which the Steelers rarely are.

If they try to play everyone close, they're going to have seasons like this, where a play here or there turns several games the wrong way. You never hear Belichick saying "there's a fine line" or "we didn't make significant plays at significant times". That's because he tries to win every game by 30 and his players take on that mindset.
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