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Old 01-02-2013, 12:20 PM   #61
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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Originally Posted by lloydwoodson View Post
Ben threw 170 more times in 2006 than he ever had previously. That is why he had much bigger numbers like 1 extra touchdown and 14 extra interceptions.
you're on fire dude - sorry, the guy just needs to get back to trusting a system just a little more

That system had him firing on all cylinders in the 05 playoffs. If we can get a respectable run game going, then I believe Ben can effectively torch defenses when they are expecting us to pound it

But, dropping back often when no one respects or expects the run? Disaster.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:27 PM   #62
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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Originally Posted by steelfury02 View Post
If we can get a respectable run game going, then I believe Ben can effectively torch defenses when they are expecting us to pound it

But, dropping back often when no one respects or expects the run? Disaster.
I can't agree more. Injuries on the O-line and inconsistent running really hurt this offense. We became one-sided.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:27 PM   #63
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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55-10 when throwing fewer than 30 MIGHT be telling, and I am on a big Ben rip, so I'll ease off the Ben-under-bus pedal a bit - I just want the guy to rise above thinking he knows best, and realize, he could be even better with more minds - not just one that thinks alike!
You have to keep Ben under the bus. It is your job as a civilized person.

"Next, Porter took Roethlisberger to task for separating himself from the team, according to Davenport.

"Last year you used to hang out with us," Davenport recalls Joey Porter saying. "This year, it's like 'the Pittsburgh Steelers and Ben.'" " From ESPN


It has been the Steelers vs. Ben for a long time now... since 2006. If you let off that gas pedal and Roethlisberger gets out from under that bus... then the rest of the Steelers are going under the bus.

Didn't you read the posts calling for LeBeau to step down after 9 straight top 10 defenses? The calls for a new OC? New RBs?

All most fans want is for Ben to stop openly criticizing his OC's "dink and dunk" offense. All most fans want is the return of a balanced offense.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:34 PM   #64
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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"Elite" Ben Roethlisberger in the Arians Offense. Steelers open up the field and the offense for him to let him shine. Ben is the centerpiece. The Steelers are gone from running the ball. These aren't your daddy's Steelers. Ben is the star of this show now.

2007: 65.3% 32 TD. 11 INT. 3124 Yds.

Pretty good right? Well...

2008: 17 TD. 15 INT. 3301 yds
2009*: 26 TD. 12 INT. 4328 yds.
2010: 17 TD. 5 INT. 3200 yds.
2011: 21 TD. 14 INT. 4077 yds.

*- Steelers Miss the Postseason.

Wow. 2007 was the only year Ben was voted to the Pro Bowl. In 2011, he got in only because Brady stepped out. Mediocrity. Thy name is Roethlisberger.

So let's check this out. Five Years in the same vertical passing game offense and Ben has not only failed to improve or match his first year (2007), but has declined considerably. 2008 was the most telling. 2009, the best of those years? The Steelers missed the playoffs. Coincidentally that year the Defense was not on top of their game. The other years, the Steelers Defense was ranked near the best in the league most of these years.

Let's go back further to the Whisenhunt Years. The guy Ben hated so much for supposedly "gimping" him.

2004: 17 TD, 11 INT. 2621 Yds
2005: 17 TD, 9 INT. 2385 Yds.
2006: 18 TD, 23 INT. 3513 Yds.

Not much of a change if you ask me from his production under Arians, minus that lone bright spot in 2007. So what's the difference? More Yards, I guess. We all know what happened in 2006. Motorbike Accident, Appendectomy, Concussion. It affected his play considerably. What does Ben do? He takes it out on Whisenhunt and blames him. He should be blowing these statistics out of the park if Whis was holding him back from greatness, instead blooms for one years and he improves by just a little. Now he throws a bit more Touchdowns per season. Wow. Look out NFL. Ben's been unshackled and he's taking the league by storm!
I will add some points you failed to cover. First in Bens career we have had a season of 15-1 , three 12-4 seasons, one 11-5 season, a 10-6 seasons,and a 9-7 season . We have had two 8-8 seasons, this past one and Cowhers last year that also coincided with Bens crash year and appendectomy. During those successful years with one exception( I will address that in a moment) we have had near or above 2000 yards of rushing and an average of 4.0 or better. A good rushing offense is a QB/Coach best friend. Last year we averaged 3.7, a full half yd difference in most cases, a significant amount spread over a game much less a season. One other time this run game was as bad that was in 2008, a Superbowl year, a year that the Steelers truly struggled on offense, yet Ben was the benefactor of the most dominant defense for most of that year, and had several key comebacks that year including the SB. Its is true he struggled with no running game and he did better this year with the same kind of running game, yet he failed to deliver as many come from behind games. BTW in 2009 we had a 9-7 record the defense gave up four 4th quarter leads that year in a row and we lost 5 games in a row, there was some serious bashing of the defense but they bounced back OK. No reason to not think the same can be done once we get a running game. BTW its easy to throw fewer than 30 times a game if you have a running game that works.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:35 PM   #65
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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Originally Posted by lloydwoodson View Post
You have to keep Ben under the bus. It is your job as a civilized person.

"Next, Porter took Roethlisberger to task for separating himself from the team, according to Davenport.

"Last year you used to hang out with us," Davenport recalls Joey Porter saying. "This year, it's like 'the Pittsburgh Steelers and Ben.'" " From ESPN


It has been the Steelers vs. Ben for a long time now... since 2006. If you let off that gas pedal and Roethlisberger gets out from under that bus... then the rest of the Steelers are going under the bus.

Didn't you read the posts calling for LeBeau to step down after 9 straight top 10 defenses? The calls for a new OC? New RBs?

All most fans want is for Ben to stop openly criticizing his OC's "dink and dunk" offense. All most fans want is the return of a balanced offense.
Yup. Exactly. He just needs to shut up and buy in. That's all. Maybe if he didn't have a rep, I wouldn't open my big mouth, but - the rep and portrayed attitude towards everything outside of his own beliefs go hand in hand.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:38 PM   #66
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

Its is hard to trust a system that for years neglected the OlL problems, it is hard to trust a system that cannot produce a decent running game. You find a running game with what we have right now and I promise you we can return to the "good old glory days" until then live with what you got or watch something on the reality channel.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:40 PM   #67
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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I will add some points you failed to cover. First in Bens career we have had a season of 15-1 , three 12-4 seasons, one 11-5 season, a 10-6 seasons,and a 9-7 season . We have had two 8-8 seasons, this past one and Cowhers last year that also coincided with Bens crash year and appendectomy. During those successful years with one exception( I will address that in a moment) we have had near or above 2000 yards of rushing and an average of 4.0 or better. A good rushing offense is a QB/Coach best friend. Last year we averaged 3.7, a full half yd difference in most cases, a significant amount spread over a game much less a season. One other time this run game was as bad that was in 2008, a Superbowl year, a year that the Steelers truly struggled on offense, yet Ben was the benefactor of the most dominant defense for most of that year, and had several key comebacks that year including the SB. Its is true he struggled with no running game and he did better this year with the same kind of running game, yet he failed to deliver as many come from behind games. BTW in 2009 we had a 9-7 record the defense gave up four 4th quarter leads that year in a row and we lost 5 games in a row, there was some serious bashing of the defense but they bounced back OK. No reason to not think the same can be done once we get a running game. BTW its easy to throw fewer than 30 times a game if you have a running game that works.
I really think you just boiled it down for me. IMO - Ben needs a reliable, constant presence at RB (and having reliable WRs helps as well - imagine that!) for him to lead 7 pt drives, and to consistently exceed moving forward. In general - he needs the balanced system and its weapons moving forward. i don't think he can just improv his way to #7. That's all.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:55 PM   #68
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

All I have tried to point out to any detractor of our QB play is that it is tied directly to our ability to run. When you abandon the run or run with no gain then you have to have to game plan accordingly, which once again I do not think we have done, even with Arians, I feel Haleys plan can work but not with what he did this year, he is going to have to compromise his system some, and Ben in turn has to adapt more to Haleys way. With all that said I feel Ben should be more in control and be allowed to freelance from time to time, even run the no-huddle more.
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Old 01-02-2013, 12:58 PM   #69
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

I agree with most of what's being said on this thread but mainly that Identity is a word that escapes the Steeler offense. 1st, because of Ben and the fact that he is an elite QB who wants to throw the ball. Secondly, because Arians was his OC for the majority of his career and a push over. Hence, we don't really have a balanced Offense becasue we don't know how too. Since Ben got here, he HAS been at war with the Steelers. They basically fired Arians becasue of it.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:01 PM   #70
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Default Re: The scoring problem has nothing to do with the passing game

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I agree with most of what's being said on this thread but mainly that Identity is a word that escapes the Steeler offense. 1st, because of Ben and the fact that he is an elite QB who wants to throw the ball. Secondly, because Arians was his OC for the majority of his career and a push over. Hence, we don't really have a balanced Offense becasue we don't know how too. Since Ben got here, he HAS been at war with the Steelers. They basically fired Arians becasue of it.
Yup. Sometimes I get the feeling that Ben feels 100% responsible for both SB wins, when in fact, he had 1 great drive, all other 52 men be damned. I just don't think he's earned the right to call the shots on offense. I just don't see the proof of why he deserves it.

Ricco - I would like to see more no huddle - but, they have to use it a lot earlier than late in the game, also - the run game is tied into that - and, IMO, Ben doesn't do a great job of correctly calling the run plays. He out-thunk himself a little too often instead of sticking with the call, or going to something more favorable
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