Lebeau Defenses not Championship Defenses

[harrison'samonster]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

right and statistics always rank this defnese in the top 5. reality its mediocre at best

mediocre? that's quite a stretch. If you don't classify Lebeau's SB defenses as Championship that's one thing. OK. You have your own definition.

But mediocre?

[desertsteel]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

right and statistics always rank this defnese in the top 5. reality its mediocre at best

The rankings are what they are. We were first in YARDS ALLOWED. That's only one barometer. Doesn't mean we gave up the fewest points, had the most sacks or created the most turnovers. Those are equally as important.

[Steelers5895]

I would say the last 5 seasons they were mediocre at best. They have gotten progressively worse since super bowl 43.

in 2009 they blew how many leads? just like this year to below average to bad teams. No big plays at all in Super Bowl 45. Killed by Tebow. BLown leads this year to bad teams like oakland and tennessee not to mention the better teams they were in position to beat.

how would you describe it?

[Steelers5895]

Originally Posted by desertsteel

The rankings are what they are. We were first in YARDS ALLOWED. That's only one barometer. Doesn't mean we gave up the fewest points, had the most sacks or created the most turnovers. Those are equally as important.

no those are more important as they are game changers. Give me an opportunistic defense that creates turnovers and gets sacks , knowing it will give up yards then what we have.

those type defenses give their offense a lot more opportunities with the ball and give up a lot less leads.

[harrison'samonster]

well, as I've already said, I would describe that 2008 defense as Championship quality. Since then they haven't played up to that, but definitely better than mediocre.

And as far as your original post goes, how many of those Defenses that you define as Championship quality played at that level for a 5 year span? I mean seriously dominating, unrelenting, head-ripping off defense?

[desertsteel]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

no those are more important as they are game changers. Give me an opportunistic defense that creates turnovers and gets sacks , knowing it will give up yards then what we have.

those type defenses give their offense a lot more opportunities with the ball and give up a lot less leads.

You would think it was important if we were giving up 475 yards a game.

[madtowndrunkard]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

I know I am going to get killed for this but if you look at history, Dick Lebeau's defenses are not championship defenses. (Steel Curtain, Doomsday, 85 Bears, Bellicheck from the Giants and early Pat Years, 2000 Ravens).

Sure, he has 2 Super Bowl wins but for top regular season ranked defenses, none were dominant playoff/Super Bowl defenses. in fact you can go back to when he was the D Coordinator for the bengals.

The Steelers defense was helped a ton in Super Bowl 40 by documented poor officiating. Not saying we would have lost but Seattle would have made a better run of it.

Big Ben bailed out the defense in Super Bowl 43.

Packers had their way in Super Bowl 45.

Plus the 49ers were able to come back on his defense when he was in Cincy.

My point is, I am sick of the high regular season rankings and come playoffs whenever we play a high powered offense we can't stop them. In fact, Tebow tore this defense to shreds.

That being said, I think its time to go in a new direction. Add the fact his defenses are impossible for young players to grasp for 2-3 years, I dont see this changing.

I must rather see a 4-3 being run by a innovative young DC or a new style 3-4 in hopes to get us back to where we need quicker. As much as our offense was the problem in 2012, with Ben that can be fixed quick. The defense with its age and under-developing young players is going to continue to not pressure the qb, not creat turnovers, give up leads to lesser teams for a while.

I'm not going to kill you for your opinion...but I am going to tell you why you are wrong... it's not as black and white as you are trying to make it out to be. There's more to it then "rankings"

#1 - our defense during our SB years and all the other years we went deep into the playoffs was good...in most cases VERY good.

#2 - The offense bailing us out is a rare occurrence over the last 20 years. Anyone paying any attention to the steelers knows well that the majority of the time it was the defense bailing out the offense...when that wasn't happening...we weren't making the playoffs. More often then not it was our defense keeping us in games...it was our offense failing to capitalize... this year is a great example of that.

#3 - The GB superbowl - would have been won by the steelers if it weren't for the turnovers made by our offense. We were up against the best offense in the league...we were going to give up points and yardage. This is a new era in the NFL...a passing era... the rules support this. We would not have been to the SB with out a solid defense and offense. I'll argue it does take both to win SB's. It's usually a fluke when a one dimensional team does it.

#4 - poor officiating did not win that SB against Seattle...to say it did is just ignorant. I'd admit it if it were true... I hate the officials as much as anyone. But most of the so called questionable calls were actually correct. A few were not...but we also got hosed on a couple...and Seattle did not exactly do anything to make one think they were the better team. That game was a standoff till a team made something happen... and it was the steelers that did that. We were in that SB because of our defense - PERIOD. The defense kept us in position to win it... it took some imagination from the offense to put points on the board.

#5 - not sure how long you've been a steeler fan but you probably don't have enough fingers to count how many times lack of scoring and turnovers cost us victories in the playoffs. In some cases it kept us from making the playoffs... this season for example.

#6 - apparently you didn't watch the 2nd half of this season...but all we needed was ANYTHING from our offense to make the playoffs...we got nothing.. the offense failed us 10X for every time the defense failed. Turnovers were often the cause.

#7 - What exactly are you expecting from our defense? We are consistently in the top 5 in the NFL year after year. Sure we get beat sometimes...but I do remind you that we are playing professionals... guys like Brady, Manning, Rogers, etc beat defenses on a regular basis... they are among the best ever at their position...obviously we can't expect to dominate every game defensively. I'll remind you that most defenses are NOT as good as ours yet they still find ways to win. The 49ers are a good example... wasn't till they found a QB that their team started winning. The packers on the other hand...have an offense but can't seem to find a defense capable of winning more then the 1 ring they have. Rogers is most definitely good enough to win multiple rings. he's better then Ben by a long shot.

#8 - I could probably go on and on with this...but dude...put some actual thought into what you are saying. This is a team sport.

[Steelers5895]

Originally Posted by harrison'samonster

well, as I've already said, I would describe that 2008 defense as Championship quality. Since then they haven't played up to that, but definitely better than mediocre.

And as far as your original post goes, how many of those Defenses that you define as Championship quality played at that level for a 5 year span? I mean seriously dominating, unrelenting, head-ripping off defense?

did ours do that? what i miss?

ive seen the pats kills us twice in champiosnhip games at home, lead after lead after lead given up over regular season games, arizona go up and down the field like it was 7 on 7 drills, the jets with mark sanchez come back on us in a championship game, the packers make every play they needed to and then some to win, tebow tear us a new one.

heck, the jags went up and down the field, the ravens in 2010 went up and down the field

one game, the 2008 championship game vs the ravens was the only game they played great.

so, to answer your question, we werent, you may want to believe we are that tough D but look at what we have done since 2001 on defense.

[Steelers5895]

Originally Posted by desertsteel

You would think it was important if we were giving up 475 yards a game.

yards are the overrated stat. pats defense gave up a ton of yards all year but was + 31 in turnovers. I'll take that, it got them to the championship game and outr #1 defense with yards, that blew 6 leads was 8-8.

[harrison'samonster]

Originally Posted by Steelers5895

look at what we have done since 2001 on defense.

I know, pretty good shit since 01! 2 SB victorys, another appearance. Continuously a top ranked D.