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Old 02-06-2013, 03:32 PM   #51
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydwoodson View Post
I don't care about regular season stats. Brees has had bad playoffs recently? Brees last 3 postseasons he has thrown 17 tds to 2 ints. If Brees had the Steelers defense he would win the Superbowl every year even with his 6th round WR, and UDFA offensive line. Brees threw for 462 yards and 4 tds in the last playoff game he lost.

Stats don't matter right? They must not or people would realise that Ben has been surpassed. Sorry, but Flacco is in the company of the all-time greats with the playoff performances he has put on.

Shouldn't you be pimping a first-round 4-3 DE who can't shed blocks and a new defensive coordinator right now? Lovie Smith is still available I believe.
So why do you have the need to keep throwing around Ben's regular season stats? I don't understand. Every topic you bring up Ben's inability to score, his yardage and his completion % and his QBR. But, now regular season stats don't matter when they go against every single part of your argument? Right, that makes sense. This is laughably hypocritical and ridiculous.

Joe Flacco, an all time great. I'm sorry, I found the new funniest thing I've read this week.

Yep, I'm still high on Dion Jordan, as are most scouts. Oh, I'm also high on a guy that won Coach of the Year, but no, you're right, you know better. You realize you're coming off as a clown, right?

Guys! Guys! Joe Flacco is an all time great Quarterback because he was beating terrible secondaries and won an MVP award that he had no business winning! Man oh man, can you believe this guy! Fuck our draft, trade all 7 picks for this years draft for Joe Flacco, an all time great Quarterback when he hasn't ever passed for more than 25 TDs or less than 10 INTs. Man, can you believe this guy? He's a superstar!

Oh, what's that? He hasn't ever had a completion % above 63? He hasn't ever passed for more than 4000 yards in a season? He still hasn't beaten the Steelers in the playoffs? But, man, this guy is an all time great!

So, Mr. Stats Man - do you see how stats can be thrown right back in your face?

I hope for you're sake you're kidding here because if you aren't, you and Blaze should go outback and continue to smoke whatever strong ass weed you guys have that's clouding your vision or the ability to generate a lucid thought. If this was a joke, it was a good one.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:35 PM   #52
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
Get off it. The Cowboys threw an Oline at us that was missing all of its starters and they handled James Harrison, Lamar Hampton, Hood, Kiesel, and the Hutt just fine.
Cowboys went 8-8 too genius. An 8-8 o-line stopped an 8-8 pass rush. I guess if the Steelers only face 8-8 pass rushes they'll be okay using your logic.

Quote:
The Steelers have won two Superbowls in recent history with no deep threat at all besides Holmes.

Wallace's contribution to this offense is vastly overrated.
No it's not. Other teams feared Wallace's speed before 2012. He stretched the field and got the other WRs open. This season, he hardly went deep, and the other receivers struggled. Hmm. Wonder why?



Quote:
LOL. You have been saying this for some time now, and it is no more true than it was a month ago.

Ben lives behind an Oline that has, count them, 2 1st round picks, and 2 2nd round picks. That is not a bad pedigree at all.
Not bad pedigree, but they are still very young.

Quote:
He has one of the best TEs in the league to throw to.
A lot of other teams are using 2 TE sets. And Heath may not be ready for next season. What's the backup plan?

Quote:
He had the fastest receiver in the NFL to throw to.
And that receiver wasn't used properly. He was limited to shorter routes which allowed the other team's defense to stack the box.

Quote:
He had the first guy to earn 1000 yards receiving and 1000 yards on kick returns, and who scored a TD on his very first NFL play ever.
And that guy couldn't hold onto anything. Are you really this ignorant or do you just enjoy blaming Ben on everything?

Quote:
About the only thing on that offensive unit you could criticize for being sub-par were the RBs.
They had an RB with skill, Tomlin benched him.



Quote:
Not really. Brown and Sanders both had a fumble catastrophe this season each, but it was largely an isolated incident.

They were averaging at least two deep balls to Wallace per game. Anymore than that and you run the risk of making your offense one-dimensional and dependent on gimmicks (or you waste lots of downs throwing iincomplete passes and leaving your defense out to dry).

There is no reason why any #1 WR should only be able to be counted on while running a single type of route. Wallace got his deep balls-- and he dropped them.
Stats stats stats stats stats. Yo ding dong, watch the game. There is no way you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben early and often. They only did it when they needed him to bail the team out.



Quote:
THis is another one of your self-propogating beliefs. No team plays for just possession-- that is just plain stupid.

All teams play for points. It just so happens that possession was one of teh goals of this offense IN ADDITION to scoring.
I don't know how anyone could have watched the Steelers this season and say they weren't limiting their own scoring chances. The Steelers were NOTHING like any of the playoff teams.

Only 2 of the 12 playoff teams were in top 5 in TOP. Houston and Seattle - both got bounced in the divisional round. I think it's safe to say the Steelers can trade some possession time for some points.

Quote:
Maintaining time of possession is a sound strategy. Especially when half your defense is on the wrong side of 30.
Here's a way to help a defense: embrace modern football and score points. Let your QB throw the ball down field.

Quote:
It worked against New England in 2010-- the key to slowing down the league's hig-flying passing attacks is to not allow them on the field by using a high-percentage passing game and keeping possession of the ball. Football 101.
Nice one genius. They got their asses kicked by New England in 2010.

You know why that short passing game worked so well against New England in 2011? The Patriots were scared to death of Wallace. They were worried Wallace would beat them deep, so Ben had the middle of the field. That didn't work this year because the Steelers didn't let Wallace run deep routes. That's hard for simple-minded yinzers to get, but it's true.


Like I said in the other thread, Artie/Haley lovers and Ben haters can quote stats all they want. If you actually watched the games, there is no way in hell you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben like better teams did with their star QBs.

If that's the kind of offense you all like, don't bitch when Ben can't be superman at the end of every game.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:44 PM   #53
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

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I agree completely. I am just saying that if you are going t cticize him, make sure its applied in the right place. I. Would not want ANY other QB including Tom Brady, Drew brees, or Aaron Rodgers. Yes I am dead serious.
Your a Big Ben fan then only...not a Steelers fan. Any one of those QB's would make the Steelers a better team.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:51 PM   #54
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

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Joe Flacco, an all time great. I'm sorry, I found the new funniest thing I've read this week.
I will go out on a limb and disagree with you strongly here (I usually share many of your opinions around here).

He may not be an all-time great (obvious hyerbole), but he did just surpass Big Ben.

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Originally Posted by SteelersCanada View Post
Guys! Guys! Joe Flacco is an all time great Quarterback because he was beating terrible secondaries and won an MVP award that he had no business winning!
For some reason though-- Big Ben was unable to beat that same "terrible secondary" the Broncos had.

How do you figure Flacco did not deserve that MVP award? Did you watch him play at all?

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Man oh man, can you believe this guy! Fuck our draft, trade all 7 picks for this years draft for Joe Flacco, an all time great Quarterback when he hasn't ever passed for more than 25 TDs or less than 10 INTs. Man, can you believe this guy? He's a superstar!

Oh, what's that? He hasn't ever had a completion % above 63? He hasn't ever passed for more than 4000 yards in a season? He still hasn't beaten the Steelers in the playoffs? But, man, this guy is an all time great!
Hyperbole. Also a double standard. When people bring up any other QBs "gaudy fantasy stats"-- the excuse is that Ben has intangibles and "just wins" us playoff games.

Now that you want to bag on Joe Flacco-- now stats do matter because he never surpassed 25 TDs in a season? How many times has Ben won SB MVP in a season?

We say Brees passing for 5 million yards perseason does not matter-- only rings do. Well Flacco has his ring now, and his SB MVP. Maybe fantasy stats don't matter as much as "just winning"? Or is that only when we are talking about Ben?


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Originally Posted by SteelersCanada View Post
I hope for you're sake you're kidding here because if you aren't, you and Blaze should go outback and continue to smoke whatever strong ass weed you guys have that's clouding your vision or the ability to generate a lucid thought. If this was a joke, it was a good one.
Weed doesn't do that. Alcohol does.
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:54 PM   #55
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

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Originally Posted by SteelersCanada View Post
So why do you have the need to keep throwing around Ben's regular season stats? I don't understand. Every topic you bring up Ben's inability to score, his yardage and his completion % and his QBR. But, now regular season stats don't matter when they go against every single part of your argument? Right, that makes sense. This is laughably hypocritical and ridiculous.

Joe Flacco, an all time great. I'm sorry, I found the new funniest thing I've read this week.

Yep, I'm still high on Dion Jordan, as are most scouts. Oh, I'm also high on a guy that won Coach of the Year, but no, you're right, you know better. You realize you're coming off as a clown, right?

Guys! Guys! Joe Flacco is an all time great Quarterback because he was beating terrible secondaries and won an MVP award that he had no business winning! Man oh man, can you believe this guy! Fuck our draft, trade all 7 picks for this years draft for Joe Flacco, an all time great Quarterback when he hasn't ever passed for more than 25 TDs or less than 10 INTs. Man, can you believe this guy? He's a superstar!

Oh, what's that? He hasn't ever had a completion % above 63? He hasn't ever passed for more than 4000 yards in a season? He still hasn't beaten the Steelers in the playoffs? But, man, this guy is an all time great!

So, Mr. Stats Man - do you see how stats can be thrown right back in your face?

I hope for you're sake you're kidding here because if you aren't, you and Blaze should go outback and continue to smoke whatever strong ass weed you guys have that's clouding your vision or the ability to generate a lucid thought. If this was a joke, it was a good one.
you are talking to the wall. this is the same guy who says Chad Brown was an OLB. The idiot has a screen name of LLoyd and didnt even know Brown played OLB only in 1996 full time AFTER Lloyd went out in game 1. ignore him he isnt a Steelers fan
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Old 02-06-2013, 03:59 PM   #56
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

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Cowboys went 8-8 too genius. An 8-8 o-line stopped an 8-8 pass rush. I guess if the Steelers only face 8-8 pass rushes they'll be okay using your logic.
What is an "8-8 pass rush"? I thought they were rated based on the number of sacks, hurries, knockdowns, etc.

You can have an elite pass rush and still finish out at 1-15. I don't know where you were going with that. Your final record does not dictate the quality of your pass rush.

Even if it did-- your logic is still busted. The Cowboys' "8-8 Oline" owned our "8-8 pass rush" hands down.

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No it's not. Other teams feared Wallace's speed before 2012. He stretched the field and got the other WRs open. This season, he hardly went deep, and the other receivers struggled. Hmm. Wonder why?
I have not looked in a while, but I believe that if you check the stats, there was no significant drop-off in the number of deep passes attempted this year, or the number of 40+ yard plays.

The other receivers did not struggle, so much as they did not have the ball thrown their way because everyone is too fixated on Wallace and his blinding speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
And that receiver wasn't used properly. He was limited to shorter routes which allowed the other team's defense to stack the box.
You keep saying this, yet you have yet to prove to anybody that a #1 WR should only be used for deep balls. As a #1 WR, he should be available and capable of having success running ALL TYPES OF ROUTES. That is what makes a COMPLETE RECEIVER as opposed to a one trick pony.



And that guy couldn't hold onto anything. Are you really this ignorant or do you just enjoy blaming Ben on everything?



They had an RB with skill, Tomlin benched him.





Stats stats stats stats stats. Yo ding dong, watch the game. There is no way you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben early and often. They only did it when they needed him to bail the team out.





I don't know how anyone could have watched the Steelers this season and say they weren't limiting their own scoring chances. The Steelers were NOTHING like any of the playoff teams.

Only 2 of the 12 playoff teams were in top 5 in TOP. Houston and Seattle - both got bounced in the divisional round. I think it's safe to say the Steelers can trade some possession time for some points.



Here's a way to help a defense: embrace modern football and score points. Let your QB throw the ball down field.



Nice one genius. They got their asses kicked by New England in 2010.

You know why that short passing game worked so well against New England in 2011? The Patriots were scared to death of Wallace. They were worried Wallace would beat them deep, so Ben had the middle of the field. That didn't work this year because the Steelers didn't let Wallace run deep routes. That's hard for simple-minded yinzers to get, but it's true.


Like I said in the other thread, Artie/Haley lovers and Ben haters can quote stats all they want. If you actually watched the games, there is no way in hell you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben like better teams did with their star QBs.

If that's the kind of offense you all like, don't bitch when Ben can't be superman at the end of every game.[/QUOTE]
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:02 PM   #57
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

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I will go out on a limb and disagree with you strongly here (I usually share many of your opinions around here).

He may not be an all-time great (obvious hyerbole), but he did just surpass Big Ben.
How? How did he pass Ben at all? He won a Super Bowl MVP award? Great, Ben should've won one back in '08, but Santonio got it because of the toes catch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
For some reason though-- Big Ben was unable to beat that same "terrible secondary" the Broncos had.
Actually, he was beating the Broncos, but our defense couldn't stop a nosebleed in the first half of the season. That's not on Roethlisberger.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
How do you figure Flacco did not deserve that MVP award? Did you watch him play at all?
Jacoby Jones deserved it. 108 yard KR and a 75 yard ball he had to come back to and made Joe look very good. I'm sorry, shredding a secondary where the starting CB and Safeties are Rogers and Donte Whitner, respectively, isn't impressive to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
Hyperbole. Also a double standard. When people bring up any other QBs "gaudy fantasy stats"-- the excuse is that Ben has intangibles and "just wins" us playoff games.
This is specific to Lloyd as his constant berating and bashing of Roethlisberger is because he doesn't put up amazing statistics, but Flacco doesn't have to and he's already one of the all time greats? Where's the logic?

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Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
Now that you want to bag on Joe Flacco-- now stats do matter because he never surpassed 25 TDs in a season? How many times has Ben won SB MVP in a season?
Again, specific to the stats-show-how-good-a-qb is argument that Lloyd loves so much, until he calls Flacco one of the best of all time and has no stable ground to fall back on because Flacco's stats are complete garbage in the regular season.

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Originally Posted by Riddle_Of_Steel View Post
We say Brees passing for 5 million yards perseason does not matter-- only rings do. Well Flacco has his ring now, and his SB MVP. Maybe fantasy stats don't matter as much as "just winning"? Or is that only when we are talking about Ben?
I've been trying to explain this very point to him dozens of times. No, stats don't matter, winning does. But, he's not saying Flacco is one of the greatest of all time because of his wins - he's saying he's one of the greatest of all time because he won one Super Bowl and threw 11 TDs to 0 INTs in one playoff. Notice the amount of times I said "one" there.

Look, Flacco is a good, not great, QB. To put him in the conversation of greatest of all time because of playoff stats is absolutely ridiculous. How about we go by his regular season stats? Why isn't it fair to bring them both into the conversation without completely throwing one away? Why? Because it makes his entire argument fall apart and look ridiculous.

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Weed doesn't do that. Alcohol does.
I don't know man, weed laced with some strong stuff would do it.
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:14 PM   #58
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

I guess that makes Colbert an idiot !
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:14 PM   #59
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

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you are talking to the wall. this is the same guy who says Chad Brown was an OLB. The idiot has a screen name of LLoyd and didnt even know Brown played OLB only in 1996 full time AFTER Lloyd went out in game 1. ignore him he isnt a Steelers fan
Someone should have told the Seahawks that Brown wasn't an OLB because he played 8 straight years at OLB for them. Maybe Brown couldn't play his natural position at OLB because Lloyd was better than him and Kevin Greene was better than him?
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Old 02-06-2013, 04:20 PM   #60
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Default Re: I'll say it plainly - anyone questioning Big Ben is an IDIOT

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Cowboys went 8-8 too genius. An 8-8 o-line stopped an 8-8 pass rush. I guess if the Steelers only face 8-8 pass rushes they'll be okay using your logic.
What is an "8-8 pass rush"? I thought they were rated based on the number of sacks, hurries, knockdowns, etc.

You can have an elite pass rush and still finish out at 1-15. I don't know where you were going with that. Your final record does not dictate the quality of your pass rush.

Even if it did-- your logic is still busted. The Cowboys' "8-8 Oline" owned our "8-8 pass rush" hands down.

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No it's not. Other teams feared Wallace's speed before 2012. He stretched the field and got the other WRs open. This season, he hardly went deep, and the other receivers struggled. Hmm. Wonder why?
I have not looked in a while, but I believe that if you check the stats, there was no significant drop-off in the number of deep passes attempted this year, or the number of 40+ yard plays.

The other receivers did not struggle, so much as they did not have the ball thrown their way because everyone is too fixated on Wallace and his blinding speed.

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
And that receiver wasn't used properly. He was limited to shorter routes which allowed the other team's defense to stack the box.
You keep saying this, yet you have yet to prove to anybody that a #1 WR should only be used for deep balls. As a #1 WR, he should be available and capable of having success running ALL TYPES OF ROUTES. That is what makes a COMPLETE RECEIVER as opposed to a one trick pony.

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And that guy couldn't hold onto anything. Are you really this ignorant or do you just enjoy blaming Ben on everything?
I just checked. Antonio Brown is creditted with 2 fumbles this year.

2 FUMBLES over the course of 15 games = "can't hold on to anything"? I guess I am ignorant.

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They had an RB with skill, Tomlin benched him.
I agree with you 100% on this. I think you and I are about the only two people who still think they should keeep Mendy next year.

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Stats stats stats stats stats. Yo ding dong, watch the game. There is no way you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben early and often. They only did it when they needed him to bail the team out.
"Bail them out" from what? They unleashed Ben on every 3rd down-- hence his outrageous 3rd down coversion percentage this year prior to the injury.

You do realize that the objective this year was to protect Ben more? You do realize that running a shorter, high percentage passing offense is not mutually exclusive to scoring points?

For all your big talk about not unleashing Ben, we ranked pretty much the same in scoring on offense this year as we did in other years when they unleashed Ben.

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I don't know how anyone could have watched the Steelers this season and say they weren't limiting their own scoring chances. The Steelers were NOTHING like any of the playoff teams.
You are the only person that has been making this claim.

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Only 2 of the 12 playoff teams were in top 5 in TOP. Houston and Seattle - both got bounced in the divisional round. I think it's safe to say the Steelers can trade some possession time for some points.
Once again, you don't have to trade possession time for points. They are not mutually exclusive. You can do both.

Again, we did not move up or down significantly from our scoring rank last year when they weren't "limiting their scoring chances".

Also, comparing us to the other playoff teams is irrelevant-- they do not have the same situation as us. Seattle has a young, talented defense. We had a defense that was made up of a bunch of veterans on the wrong side of 30. In past seasons, they demonstrated quite clearly that if left out on the field too long-- they fold like a lawnchair.

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
Here's a way to help a defense: embrace modern football and score points. Let your QB throw the ball down field.
It did not seem to make much difference. We have been hovering around 21st in scoring for the last several years, regardless of what offensive scheme we are running.

Also, if I am not mistaken, we were #2 in ToP last year as well. Were we "limiting our scoring chances" then too?

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Nice one genius. They got their asses kicked by New England in 2010.
Whoopdeedoo-- I was off by a year. You know what game I am referring to.

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Originally Posted by GoFor7 View Post
You know why that short passing game worked so well against New England in 2011? The Patriots were scared to death of Wallace. They were worried Wallace would beat them deep, so Ben had the middle of the field. That didn't work this year because the Steelers didn't let Wallace run deep routes. That's hard for simple-minded yinzers to get, but it's true.
It seemed to be working just fine until Ben got hurt. And again, we ranked pretty much the same in scoring this year as last. Neither reality helps your position out at all.

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Like I said in the other thread, Artie/Haley lovers and Ben haters can quote stats all they want. If you actually watched the games, there is no way in hell you can say the Steelers unleashed Ben like better teams did with their star QBs.
Translation: No matter what evidence is presented, I will stubbornly stick to my unsupported assumption.

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If that's the kind of offense you all like, don't bitch when Ben can't be superman at the end of every game.
Well, that's the thing-- he was not Superman in any game this year when that situation came up. I think it was due to extenuating circumstances, but it is what it is.

And can we please avoid the name-calling? I am all for a respectful, two-way conversation. Not here to flame you guys or be a pain in the ass. I have respect for you, and often agree with you or back you up when I think you are right about something. Can you show the same courtesy?
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