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Old 03-04-2013, 01:13 PM   #71
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley View Post
I believe you have been pleading that oline is a major need but let's look at this based on %s

Based on starters and that they will be around or at least 2 more years

Qb- we need 1 starter and we have that in Ben so need in 0% for that position
Rb- you need 1 starter and we don't have a full time back (Dwyer and redman are backups) so need is 100% for the position
Wr- you need 3 good starters ( z, x, slot ) in this pass happy league we have two brown and sanders so we need one more so need would be 33%
Tight end- this is a rare case cause of millers injury so ill just give it a 40% need at the moment
Oline- 5 starters and we currently have 4 Adams,Gilbert, dd, pouncey so we need would be 20%
Dline- need 3 starters and we currently have Brett but this is his last year but you still have his backup in heyward, hood, and the McClendon so need is 0%
Linebacker- 4 starters and based on the criteria of being here for 2 more years we have Timmons and Woodley so need is 50%
Cornerback- starters 3 now a days we have Ike, Lewis and Allen need 0%
Safety- starters 2 and Clark and Troy most likely wont be around for 2 years so safety is 100%

As you can see based on starters alone rb, safety, linebacker, te, wr are our biggest needs. And what I mean by all this is having 4 of 5 lineman is pretty good when thinking of a team as a puzzle but we have bigger pieces meaning starters missing at other positions. Now you can argue depth is important for oline as is very every position but depth is for rounds 4+
I'm still trying to figure this one out and willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in the meantime... I'm having a little difficulty with the formula...

I'm pretty sure that all of the areas you suggest are going to be addressed in this draft. I'm not so sure about allocating our 1st round pick for a running back, 2nd round a safety, 3rd a linebacker, if that was what you meant.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:28 PM   #72
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by WokeUpWithaWoodley View Post
I believe you have been pleading that oline is a major need but let's look at this based on %s

Based on starters and that they will be around or at least 2 more years

Qb- we need 1 starter and we have that in Ben so need in 0% for that position
Rb- you need 1 starter and we don't have a full time back (Dwyer and redman are backups) so need is 100% for the position
Wr- you need 3 good starters ( z, x, slot ) in this pass happy league we have two brown and sanders so we need one more so need would be 33%
Tight end- this is a rare case cause of millers injury so ill just give it a 40% need at the moment
Oline- 5 starters and we currently have 4 Adams,Gilbert, dd, pouncey so we need would be 20%
Dline- need 3 starters and we currently have Brett but this is his last year but you still have his backup in heyward, hood, and the McClendon so need is 0%
Linebacker- 4 starters and based on the criteria of being here for 2 more years we have Timmons and Woodley so need is 50%
Cornerback- starters 3 now a days we have Ike, Lewis and Allen need 0%
Safety- starters 2 and Clark and Troy most likely wont be around for 2 years so safety is 100%

As you can see based on starters alone rb, safety, linebacker, te, wr are our biggest needs. And what I mean by all this is having 4 of 5 lineman is pretty good when thinking of a team as a puzzle but we have bigger pieces meaning starters missing at other positions. Now you can argue depth is important for oline as is very every position but depth is for rounds 4+
I'm having difficulty understanding what you're saying here. From what I can decipher, you don't worry about depth, only starters?

But on the O-line, we need one more legitimate starter at LG, and perhaps another at OT if Gilbert doesn't get back on track. And we have no depth - especially if we lose all of Starks, Colon and Foster. That's just too thin. Even if we have zero serious injuries (which won't happen), it's thin.

I'm not saying that OL is our only need, but it's still a big need. Compare the OL to LB, for example: all four LBs are legitimate, proven NFL starters, and the backups are unproven, but not clearly weak. Whereas on the OK, three proven starters (I don't count Gilbert), and the backups are weak - with unfilled slots remaining.
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Old 03-04-2013, 01:50 PM   #73
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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I still dont get how you definitively say that Gilbert regressed last year when he only played 5 games?
I know this because I replay the offensive plays from every game in slow-motion just to focus on the OL - it's been a hobby since our OL self-destructed about 5-6 years ago, and I became curious about what was going wrong - was it Arians, the schemes, or the OL personnel? (It was all of the above, actually). Anyway, as I result I have a really good feel for who is doing what. I encourage you to try that, I've learned a lot!

Anyway, regarding Gilbert: in the preseason, he actually looked more like a rookie than Adams. He also didn't seem to bring much effort, he gave up after being beaten. I thought he might be out of shape. Anyway, he continued his poor performance in the regular season, and then was injured. He wasn't the same guy who improved steadily in his rookie year.

I'm not the only one who noticed the regression, either. You could google around for it, or even go back in these forums. But if you watch Gilbert closely, I'd be shocked if you don't see it.
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Old 03-04-2013, 02:12 PM   #74
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

We've spent enough picks on O lineman. Pouncey, Adams, Gilbert, DeCastro, and Beachum all in just the last few years. That's all that can be done, it's just time for the players to start stepping up and staying uninjured. It's not a coincidence that other teams had their entire starting 5 play all 16 games yet our O line is always so injured that we have already gone through our backups and have started to start practice squad guys for the last 4 years. I agree the O line is still a problem, even though they got MUCH better last year, but throwing more players at it is not what's going to fix it, else it would have been fixed already. Just like the rest of the entire team, it's going to take dedication and a change of heart.
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Old 03-04-2013, 03:29 PM   #75
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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We've spent enough picks on O lineman. Pouncey, Adams, Gilbert, DeCastro, and Beachum all in just the last few years. That's all that can be done, it's just time for the players to start stepping up and staying uninjured. It's not a coincidence that other teams had their entire starting 5 play all 16 games yet our O line is always so injured that we have already gone through our backups and have started to start practice squad guys for the last 4 years. I agree the O line is still a problem, even though they got MUCH better last year, but throwing more players at it is not what's going to fix it, else it would have been fixed already. Just like the rest of the entire team, it's going to take dedication and a change of heart.
tanda, I actually took some auto mental break from the O-line problems with all the locker-room nonsense talk and free agency stuff - thanks for helping me to remember

don't you get me started on the conditioning and training tangent again. It really is mind boggling how we've gotten almost no stretch of time with the same O-line. I remember see Decastro go down and thinking "This is 1 large joke - this just doesn't happen to 1 corp for so long - even the new guys HAVE to get injured"
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:50 PM   #76
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

The Steelers have so many needs at so many positions Colbert is likely to go with a strict BPA at every pick and not force a pick based on need at a certain position.

It is his usual MO.
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Old 03-04-2013, 04:56 PM   #77
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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I know this because I replay the offensive plays from every game in slow-motion just to focus on the OL - it's been a hobby since our OL self-destructed about 5-6 years ago, and I became curious about what was going wrong - was it Arians, the schemes, or the OL personnel? (It was all of the above, actually). Anyway, as I result I have a really good feel for who is doing what. I encourage you to try that, I've learned a lot!

Anyway, regarding Gilbert: in the preseason, he actually looked more like a rookie than Adams. He also didn't seem to bring much effort, he gave up after being beaten. I thought he might be out of shape. Anyway, he continued his poor performance in the regular season, and then was injured. He wasn't the same guy who improved steadily in his rookie year.

I'm not the only one who noticed the regression, either. You could google around for it, or even go back in these forums. But if you watch Gilbert closely, I'd be shocked if you don't see it.
Thanks, but I am actually an accredited youth football coach and O line has been an interest since I played the position over 20 years ago and I still coach it. My O line coach played at Michigan St back in the day and I've learned from former pros that played for then O line Coach Joe Tiller (he later had some success at Purdue). I too have a DVR and watch line play very closely.

I watched a lot of the line play and Gilbert has a good kick slide, punch and agility for a young guy his size. It impressed me 2 years ago when he had to play vs Trent Cole. I think injury hampered him and the idea that he was slid over to RT in favor of Adams at LT.

Adams was exactly what I thought. A guy that lacked the strength and consistency of his set to be solid in pass protection as a rookie. He too has great feet for his size and I expect him to get better after an offseason in the weight room and with an O line coach to drive him.

I dont see the bleak outlook that some here do. I think we have a good crop of young talent on the line and adding a veteran interior lineman thru FA or a young mauler in the draft , or just signing Foster....will solidify things nicely.
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Old 03-04-2013, 05:48 PM   #78
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

My outlook is positive as well; I see a lot of upside for this OL, and it's especially encouraging to see how far we've come - all the way from the very bottom tier. We just need one more starter, normal improvement from Adams, status quo from Pouncey and DeCastro, and Gilbert to answer the big question - hopefully he shows up in shape. But we also need to address depth. Seriously, we are very likely to lose both Starks and Colon, and Foster is a weak maybe (and not a starter anyway).

We have a chance to turn a weakness into a strength, but we're not done yet! One more high quality draft pick at G would be huge. Ben's getting older, and it's time we gave him a truly strong OL. It would be a great investment
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Old 03-04-2013, 06:46 PM   #79
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

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My outlook is positive as well; I see a lot of upside for this OL, and it's especially encouraging to see how far we've come - all the way from the very bottom tier. We just need one more starter, normal improvement from Adams, status quo from Pouncey and DeCastro, and Gilbert to answer the big question - hopefully he shows up in shape. But we also need to address depth. Seriously, we are very likely to lose both Starks and Colon, and Foster is a weak maybe (and not a starter anyway).

We have a chance to turn a weakness into a strength, but we're not done yet! One more high quality draft pick at G would be huge. Ben's getting older, and it's time we gave him a truly strong OL. It would be a great investment
I think Foster is serviceable. Better than Legursky, Darnell Stapleton, Kemoeatu and other that have been there in the past. I think he is more physical than Beechum, so I have no problem with him on the line.

Starks and Colon can go for all I care. One cant stay on the field and the other will get overpaid for his talent level. Can always find guys in the 3rd round to play on the inside, but I think we have good depth if we look at Beechum at backup OT, with Legursky backing up inside and adding a rookie.
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Old 03-04-2013, 09:42 PM   #80
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Default Re: Offensive Line is STILL a big problem

Left to Right...Adams-Foster-Pouncey-Decastro-Gilbert (with Beachum backing up the Right side and Legursky on the Left). That's not a problem IMO but AS ALWAYS if someone gets hurt...Let the shuffling begin. I know Foster is probably gone but a man can dream right?
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