Why register with the Steelers Fever Forums?
 • Intelligent and friendly discussions.
 • It's free and it's quick. Always.
 • Enter events in the forums calendar.
 • Very user friendly software.
 • Exclusive contests and giveaways.

 Donate to Steelers Fever, Click here
 Our 2013 Goal: $400.00 - To Date: $00.00 (00.00%)
 Home | Forums | Editorials | Shop | Tickets | Downloads | Contact Pittsburgh Steelers Forum Feed Not Just Fans. Hardcore Fans.

Go Back   Steelers Fever Forums > Steelers Football > Pittsburgh Steelers


Steelers Fever Fan Shop

Doc's Sports Get FREE NFL Picks and College Football picks as well as Football Lines like live NFL Lines and updated NFL Power Rankings all at Doc's Sports Service.

Steelers Steelers - Referees    Browns

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-09-2013, 12:51 PM   #1
SteelersCanada
Living Legend
Supporter
 
SteelersCanada's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,079
Member Number: 24400
Thanks: 3,995
Thanked 7,179 Times in 3,102 Posts
Default Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

The draft is almost here! In fact ...



Ya, I'm excited. I think all of us are excited about the draft. A lot of us recognize that this is probably the most important draft for this front office in Tomlin's tenure thus far. We have to nail this draft - we have to. I don't think it's going too far to say that we have a lot of holes on both sides of the ball but more glaringly on defense than offense. One of these holes that is talked a lot of about (with good reason) is Outside Linebacker. Losing James Harrison won't hurt as much as some will say, but losing his presence and leadership is more important than losing his actual play. The lack of depth behind him is startling. We need to fill that hole for multiple reasons and the best way to do it would be at 17, right?

Probably. But we won't.

There's Suddenly A Lot of Depth at OLB in This Draft

Where did all these guys come from? Suddenly, there's a ton of prospects past the first round that look promising and could potentially be the guy for this team. What's more shocking is they can be found in virtually every round. Guys like Lemonier, Washington, S. Moore, Collins and Okafor can all be found past the first round and a lot, if not all, of these guys will be there at 48. This might soften the blow of missing on guys like Jordan, Ansah and Mingo.

These guys all have their issues whether it be medical, physical or mental lapses, but a lot of their errors and mistakes are coachable and thus fixable.

We Shouldn't Reach For a Prospect at 17

We shouldn't take Tank Carradine if he's there at 17 for the same reason we shouldn't take Tyler Eifert when he's there at 17 - we can't reach for a prospect. We don't pick in the top 20 often but when we do, we can't be picking at a position in which one of our guys already has it locked down. Now, this is not the same thing as picking a Safety despite having Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu - those guys are on the back nine of their careers. Miller might be as well, but he still has a lot football left in him.

We can't reach for a guy simply because he's there. We've never drafted for need and we can't now. Reaching for a guy like Carradine, Okafor or Moore in the first round would be a mistake. When we're picking this high, we need to get as close to a surefire prospect as we can get.

Past the Initial Three, There's a Substantial Drop Off

Dion Jordan, Ezekial Ansah, Barkevious Mingo. These are the guys that will be taken between 5 and 15. They're raw, but they're explosive. Past these guys in the first round, there's a significant drop off in talent. A lot of guys are high on Jarvis Jones (me included) but there are some serious red flags with this kid. I'm not talking about his Pro Day or Combine numbers, I'm talking about his medical issues and sudden reports of his questionable work ethic. He put up insane numbers in college football and what makes this more special, he did it in the SEC. Do you know who else put up nice numbers in college? Vernon Gholston.

While there is a talent pool in the second, third and fourth rounds of pass rushers, past these initial three guys it's night and day in terms of initial impact and ceiling.

I know what you're thinking now: but SC! these are reasons we shouldn't draft a pass rusher in the first!

I decided to start with the positivity first because, well, here comes the negativity.

Have You Seen Our Depth at OLB? Yikes.

What depth?

Behind Woodley we have Robinson. With the recently departed Harrison, Worilds is expected to step up and take on the Right Outside role and there are serious questions whether or not he's ready and capable of taking on this role, but put that on the back burner for a second. Behind him, there's Chris Carter. That's it. That's all we have. While I think Woodley will have a bounce back year, is anyone really comfortable having Robinson and/or Carter playing in relief for either of these guys? I'm not. I'm reeeaaaaally not.

The lack of depth brings me to ...

We Have a Lack of Talent at Outside Linebacker Right Now

This is big. To be honest, I'm not exactly sure why no one else is talking about this. Every time someone mentions OLB bells and whistles should go off reminding us that we have a serious lack of talent at our pass rushing positions right now. Woodley's last couple of seasons have been marred by injury and on the right side sits Jason Worilds. Worilds while playing on the left side has flashed but on the right side ... Nothing. Nada. Zilch. But again, Worilds on the back burner for now.

Woodley needs to have a bounce back year. He absolutely has to. 4 sacks last year is unacceptable and I don't care what reason he has. Be it injury or lack of physical training or injury because of lack of physical training, he has to fix it. If we're going to return to form in not just sacks but turnovers, Woodley has to come out and have a record season. Anything below 12 sacks for him would be disappointing.

The Jason Worilds Paradox

This is by far the biggest one. There are question marks and red flags when it comes to Worilds everywhere and one doesn't need to dig very deep to find them. I'm rooting for the kid, I honestly am. I hope he comes out and sets the world (field?) on fire and lights up opposing backfields. I'm also realistic and recognize the chances of him doing this are pretty close to 0. Remember what I said earlier on what he had done on the right side? Nothing. Nada. Zilch. When playing in relief for Woodley he was able to apply pretty consistent pressure and was fairly solid against the run. However (you guys should've sensed the "but" coming) when playing in relief for Harrison, he looked average. No, he didn't look average. He looked bad. Bad. There's a reason for this though: LOLB and ROLB are not interchangeable positions. Just because you can apply pressure on the left side doesn't mean you have the athleticism or strength to play against the best Tackles this game has.

This leads to what I call the Jason Worilds paradox:

It's a lose / lose with Jason Worilds. We can't win. We're fucked.

Let's assume for a second that Worilds comes out and has a huge year. He comes out, lights up opposing backfields and is a force to be reckoned with. Let's say, for all intents and purposes, he gets anywhere between 10 - 14 sacks. Guess what? This is his contract year. Paul Kruger just signed a 5 year, 40 million dollar deal with the Cleveland Browns. He got 9 sacks last year. Even if you split the difference on Worilds and say he gets 12 sacks, that puts him right there with DeMarcus Ware in 2012. Ware signed a 7 year, 78 million dollar deal a few years back.

That's a lot of money for Jason Worilds. Even at a conservative estimate at 10 sacks, that puts him right up there with Anthony Spencer who was franchise tagged at the price of over 10 million dollars. Is anyone comfortable giving Worilds that kind of money? I'm not.

Well, what's the other scenario you might be asking.

Worilds comes out flat and doesn't produce. He comes out and produces what I think he's going to and we struggle on defense again due to lack of a pass rush. This fucks us four ways straight. One, it shows that Worilds isn't capable of handling full time OLB duties. Two, we need to draft and probably play a rookie in 2014. Three, it wouldn't matter what kind of shape Woodley could come into next season at if he's constantly getting double and triple teamed because they know Worilds can be shut down by just their Tackle. Finally, we would again see a lack of turnovers due to a lack of consistent pressure. We would be delaying the inevitable by pushing back our need for an OLB to 2014. We're looking at another 8-8 or 9-7 season if the pressure and turnovers don't pick up considerably.

We can't win. In either scenario, we're looking at a rookie to fill in for 2014. I suggest you guys become Alabama fans and watch CJ Mosley because it looks like he'll be our starting ROLB in 2014.

Let's end things on a more positive note though. I hate to end things in a negative way.

There Are Elite Prospects That Aren't Pass Rushers at 17

Kenny Vaccaro, Arthur Brown, Alec Ogletree, Tavon Austin and Matt Elam.

Those are the guys I can see being available at 17 for us to pick from. I'm very much okay with any one of those guys. While there are some that would be more of a reach than others, they would all fill a need and would be considered elite prospects. Out of those guys I'd love to see Vaccaro or Brown in a Steelers jersey. That being said, I'd take any one of those guys in the first round. Austin has explosive playmaking ability and Elam hits like a truck. Ogletree has his issues, but man can that kid play football.

I think that with the importance our 'Backers play in our scheme, more specifically our Outside Linebackers, we need to go pass rusher in the first round if someone like KeKe Mingo is there. But we probably won't.
SteelersCanada is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to SteelersCanada For This Useful Post:
Bane (04-09-2013)
Old 04-09-2013, 01:04 PM   #2
harrison'samonster
Living Legend
 
harrison'samonster's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Youngstown, OH
Posts: 6,394
Gender: Male
Member Number: 17630
Thanks: 40,033
Thanked 7,119 Times in 3,038 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

Thanks for the post! You make a good argument. I still don't know if we absolutely must go with OLB in the 1st, but if the Steelers decide that the player they want is there, then go for it.

Like you say, the OLB and LB position in general are essential to a good 3-4 defense. The Steelers need to do what they have to in order to put the best team possible on the field.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii 5-0 View Post
I think so too, but there are about 50 players rumored to be first round draft choices so far. someone has to fall...
harrison'samonster is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to harrison'samonster For This Useful Post:
SteelersCanada (04-09-2013)
Old 04-09-2013, 01:08 PM   #3
Bane
Assistant Coach
 
Bane's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,328
Member Number: 24775
Thanks: 1,722
Thanked 1,937 Times in 829 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

I'm still holding out hope (albeit limited hope) for Clowney.
Bane is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Bane For This Useful Post:
SteelersCanada (04-09-2013)
Old 04-09-2013, 01:17 PM   #4
SteelersCanada
Living Legend
Supporter
 
SteelersCanada's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,079
Member Number: 24400
Thanks: 3,995
Thanked 7,179 Times in 3,102 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrison'samonster View Post
Thanks for the post! You make a good argument. I still don't know if we absolutely must go with OLB in the 1st, but if the Steelers decide that the player they want is there, then go for it.

Like you say, the OLB and LB position in general are essential to a good 3-4 defense. The Steelers need to do what they have to in order to put the best team possible on the field.
As usual, good points. I might just be worrying a little bit too much about Worilds, you're right. I hope he comes out and blows it up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bane View Post
I'm still holding out hope (albeit limited hope) for Clowney.
You and me both.
SteelersCanada is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:40 PM   #5
Rabbit
Starter
Supporter
 
Rabbit's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Shadyside, PA
Posts: 459
Member Number: 24863
Thanks: 58
Thanked 332 Times in 145 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

I think it's a bit silly to compare Jarvis Jones to Vernon Gholston. They were virtually polar opposites as prospects.

- Jones had ridiculous production; Gholston was mediocre on the stat sheet
- Jones showed up more the bigger the stage got; Gholston shrunk against tougher matchups
- Gholston was a workout warrior; Jones has poor workout times
- Gholston seemed disinterested in football; Jones loves the sport
Rabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:42 PM   #6
Steelstoned1972
UNLEASHING HELL SINCE '72
Supporter
 
Steelstoned1972's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Hall of Fame city , Canton Ohio
Posts: 2,344
Gender: Male
Member Number: 16903
Thanks: 2,860
Thanked 2,102 Times in 1,218 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

I agree we definitely need some outside backers. it seems the highest we ever taken one in recent years has been woodley in the 2nd round. Timmons was round 1 but he obviously is ilb position. Is that simply because they didnt have a pass rusher slated as bpa for their slotted draft position or because they have faith after a few years they will coach up a olb that they feel fits their scheme....or a combination of the two ? I dont know the answer but i wouldnt be surprised if we grab a few in rounds 2 -6 . I dont think they will take one at 17 unless they are in love with the pick.
Steelstoned1972 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:44 PM   #7
harrison'samonster
Living Legend
 
harrison'samonster's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Youngstown, OH
Posts: 6,394
Gender: Male
Member Number: 17630
Thanks: 40,033
Thanked 7,119 Times in 3,038 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

Quote:
Originally Posted by craignewhouser View Post
I agree we definitely need some outside backers. it seems the highest we ever taken one in recent years has been woodley in the 2nd round. Timmons was round 1 but he obviously is ilb position. Is that simply because they didnt have a pass rusher slated as bpa for their slotted draft position or because they have faith after a few years they will coach up a olb that they feel fits their scheme....or a combination of the two ? I dont know the answer but i wouldnt be surprised if we grab a few in rounds 2 -6 . I dont think they will take one at 17 unless they are in love with the pick.
the theory is that now that more teams are switching to 3-4, the earlier the 3-4 LB players are being drafted. I think your last point hits it on the head.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii 5-0 View Post
I think so too, but there are about 50 players rumored to be first round draft choices so far. someone has to fall...
harrison'samonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:45 PM   #8
SteelersCanada
Living Legend
Supporter
 
SteelersCanada's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 6,079
Member Number: 24400
Thanks: 3,995
Thanked 7,179 Times in 3,102 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbit View Post
I think it's a bit silly to compare Jarvis Jones to Vernon Gholston. They were virtually polar opposites as prospects.

- Jones had ridiculous production; Gholston was mediocre on the stat sheet
- Jones showed up more the bigger the stage got; Gholston shrunk against tougher matchups
- Gholston was a workout warrior; Jones has poor workout times
- Gholston seemed disinterested in football; Jones loves the sport
In 2007 Gholston got 14 sacks. It wasn't in the SEC which I acknowledged, but it 14 sacks isn't mediocre.

While I am still high on Jones and think he's a great prospect, there are legitimate concerns. There were games where he almost disappeared and the Alabama game is an example of that.

The comparison isn't that ludicrous.
SteelersCanada is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:46 PM   #9
Vis
In Hoc
Supporter
 
Vis's Avatar
 

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SC
Posts: 6,079
Gender: Male
Member Number: 5117
Thanks: 350
Thanked 2,673 Times in 1,481 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

One of the advantages of having so so many needs is the freedom to take the best available without regard to position
__________________


All generalizations are dangerous.
Vis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 01:48 PM   #10
Steel_Bus_24
Team President
 
Steel_Bus_24's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,316
Member Number: 2886
Thanks: 203
Thanked 601 Times in 303 Posts
Default Re: Why We Need to Go Outside Linebacker in the First, But Probably Won't

If there is one OLB that has more red flags for me then Jones....its Mingo. Major turn off for me when you got teammates saying he was taking chunks and chunks of games off. Plus LSU has been a pretty stacked D....you would like to see more production from him with all that other talent around him

After Woodley 2.0(ie Lazy/hurt Version)....I don't want anymore of that type of attitude/mentality or as Tomlin would say "Approach" in the locker room. The Steelers need to get the eye of the tiger back and realize teams aren't going to just hand them wins This Im a great football Player, I don't need to have great practices to be great on gameday crap needs to be thrown out

Really the only OLBs that Id like to see the Steelers take at 17 would be Jordan or Ansah. I think you can find much better value at other positions there or get more value by trading down
__________________

Also Known as SteelerSpartan
Steel_Bus_24 is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Steel_Bus_24 For This Useful Post:
harrison'samonster (04-09-2013), pczach (04-09-2013), Rabbit (04-09-2013)
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Shoutbox provided by vBShout v6.2.1 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.0.8 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd. Runs best on HiVelocity Hosting.
Navbar with Avatar by Motorradforum
no new posts