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Old 06-07-2013, 09:02 AM   #11
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

I would rather have a supreme court that upholds the constitution. Not twist it to fit their personal beliefs.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

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I do not know if liberal/conservative really is the standard of what sort of Supreme Court would reign this in.

Justice Scalia is about as conservative as they come but he wrote the vociferous dissent in the DNA case while Justice Breyer voted with the majority to uphold taking a DNA sample at the time of arrest
True about Breyer but look at historical 4th Amendment cases.
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Old 06-07-2013, 12:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

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I would rather have a supreme court that upholds the constitution. Not twist it to fit their personal beliefs.
Whose interpretation?
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Old 06-07-2013, 01:07 PM   #14
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

If the Constitution were perfect, they wouldn't be called Amendments
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:35 PM   #15
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

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If the Constitution were perfect, they wouldn't be called Amendments
So... are you saying that you actually agree with the thirteenth amendment!?!

How dare you question the Founding Fathers!!!
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Old 06-07-2013, 02:57 PM   #16
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

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I would rather have a supreme court that upholds the constitution. Not twist it to fit their personal beliefs.
Every Justice who has ever sat on the Supreme Court would say their decisions have upheld the Constitution. That goes for both the Justices who held by a 7-1 vote that racial segregation of public facilities was not unconstitutional in Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896 and the nine Justices who unanimously held such segregation was unconstitutional in Brown v. Board of Education in 1954.

But deciding issues of Constitutional interpretation such as what constitutes the "right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures" leaves a lot of room for discretion in the application of such general terms to a specific case. Any contention that there is only one possible interpretation as to how issues arising in the 21st century can be resolved by divining the clear intent of how Madison, Franklin, and Washington would have decided the issue if it had been brought before them is specious.

It's a constitution, not holy writ.
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Old 06-07-2013, 03:27 PM   #17
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

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True about Breyer but look at historical 4th Amendment cases.
I think your "liberal/conservative" dichotomy with regard to who is more likely to apply the protections of the 4th Amendment expansively actually breaks down more along the lines of more skeptical/less skeptical of assertions of law enforcement authority. The liberal/conservative breakdown (or more accurately Democrat appointee/GOP appointee) more often applies in cases involving regulatory issues and standing/class action issues that impact access to the legal system to redress grievances.

For example, Scalia and Thomas were with the majority this term that held using a drug dog to sniff around the front porch constituted a search, while Breyer joined the dissent. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...1-564_5426.pdf

In earlier terms, the majority that held in Kyllo v. U.S., 533 U.S. 27 (2001) that thermal imaging of a house, to determine if heat thrown off by marijuana grow lamps was a search, consisted of Scalia, Souter, Thomas, Ginsburg, and Breyer, with Stevens writing a dissent in which Rehnquist, O'Connor, and Kennedy joined. http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

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I think your "liberal/conservative" dichotomy with regard to who is more likely to apply the protections of the 4th Amendment expansively actually breaks down more along the lines of more skeptical/less skeptical of assertions of law enforcement authority. The liberal/conservative breakdown (or more accurately Democrat appointee/GOP appointee) more often applies in cases involving regulatory issues and standing/class action issues that impact access to the legal system to redress grievances.

For example, Scalia and Thomas were with the majority this term that held using a drug dog to sniff around the front porch constituted a search, while Breyer joined the dissent. http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions...1-564_5426.pdf

In earlier terms, the majority that held in Kyllo v. U.S., 533 U.S. 27 (2001) that thermal imaging of a house, to determine if heat thrown off by marijuana grow lamps was a search, consisted of Scalia, Souter, Thomas, Ginsburg, and Breyer, with Stevens writing a dissent in which Rehnquist, O'Connor, and Kennedy joined. http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...=1&oi=scholarr
Look back at Plessy and Brown
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:35 PM   #19
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

Turns out NSA has a web page, including a section for kids!

“We’re the CryptoKids® and we love cryptology,” the site reads. “What’s cryptology? Cryptology is making and breaking codes. It’s so cool.” You know what else is cool, according to the CryptoKids website? The work being done by the heroes at the National Security Agency/Central Security Service: “Our Nation’s leaders and warfighters count on the technology and information they get from NSA/CSS to get their jobs done. Without NSA/CSS, they wouldn’t be able to talk to one another without the bad guys listening and they wouldn’t be able to figure out what the bad guys were planning."



The CryptoKids website is designed to teach children that codebreaking and surveillance work is fun, and patriotic, and performed by an awesomely outrageous cast of cartoon animals. The name “CryptoKids” actually refers to a fictional group of anthropomorphic code-crackers, whose skills and hobbies are lovingly detailed on the NSA’s website. There’s CryptoCat, the leader, who grew up on a Navajo reservation; DecipherDog (“or D-Dog for short”), a cryptanalyst who plays junior varsity football; RosettaStone, a language analyst who appears to be some sort of fox; [and] Slate .... a mathematically gifted rabbit who can juggle balls with his long, droopy ears....

What’s the point of all this? Recruitment, obviously. The CryptoKids website also features an extensive section titled “How Can I Work For NSA?” “It’s never too early to start thinking about what you want to be when you grow up!”


http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/201...cryptocat.html

Reading about this makes me feel much better - if only I had known NSA is only interested in hoovering up information about my phone calls and web site visits to figure out what the bad guys are thinking.
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Old 06-07-2013, 04:46 PM   #20
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Default Re: If You Have Verizon, The NSA Has Been Secretly Collecting Your Phone Records

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Look back at Plessy and Brown
???

Plessy and Brown were not 4th Amendment cases and Plessy was more of a14th Amendment case than it was a criminal case even though it involved prosecution for not vacating the whites only rail car. I have no clue who was regarded as a liberal and who was a conservative in 1896. To the extent you regard Justice Harlan, the lone dissenter in Plessy, to be a "liberal" in the modern sense of that term, here is a nugget from his dissent

[T]he white race deems itself to be the dominant race in this country. And so it is, in prestige, in achievements, in education, in wealth and in power. So, I doubt not, it will continue to be for all time, if it remains true to its great heritage and holds fast to the principles of constitutional liberty.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...=163&invol=537

I do know FDR appointee Felix Frankfurter was regarded as a judicial conservative by 1954 and he was part of the 9-0 Brown opinion
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