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Old 07-08-2013, 03:54 PM   #21
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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fuck that ...the american people absorb all the risk , and reap none of the reward.
one of the US politicians asked if they would guarantee that all the oil flowing through the pipeline would only be used for the US....they said no.
A pipeline is not the answer. Just ask the residents of Mayflower, Arkansas how much safer pipelines are. You can also read the story I posted earlier about the giant spill in Canada that killed EVERYTHING IT TOUCHED and is being called the worst man-made environmental disaster in North America.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:10 PM   #22
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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A pipeline is not the answer. Just ask the residents of Mayflower, Arkansas how much safer pipelines are. You can also read the story I posted earlier about the giant spill in Canada that killed EVERYTHING IT TOUCHED and is being called the worst man-made environmental disaster in North America.
i have yet to hear one single way that the pipeline will benefit american that wasn't debunked and exposed as bullshit propaganda. the sheeple think it'll lead to lower gas prices ...
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Keystone XL would have diverted Canadian oil from refineries in the Midwest to the Gulf Coast where it could be refined and exported. Many of these refineries are in Foreign Trade Zones where oil may be exported to international buyers without paying U.S. taxes.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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A pipeline is not the answer. Just ask the residents of Mayflower, Arkansas how much safer pipelines are. You can also read the story I posted earlier about the giant spill in Canada that killed EVERYTHING IT TOUCHED and is being called the worst man-made environmental disaster in North America.
The oil is going to go from Canada to somewhere by rail or pipeline - expecting it to stay in the ground in a non-starter

After President Obama, looking to shore up his base, temporarily delayed the Keystone pipeline — an action that stunned Canada — the Canadian leaders jetted to China for a series of meetings with Chinese officials. Thanks to the Alberta sands, Canada is sitting on the third largest oil reserves in the world after Venezuela and Saudi Arabia. “That oil will be sold,” says {Canada's minister of natural resources], “if not to you, then to somebody else. That is not meant as a threat. It is just a fact.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/op...unmuzzled.html
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:16 PM   #24
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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i have yet to hear one single way that the pipeline will benefit american that wasn't debunked and exposed as bullshit propaganda
Source? - just a wild guess the debunkers might have their own agendas

Perhaps a quick refresher on the benefits of Keystone are in order. First, notwithstanding the development of alternative energy sources, the world is going to continue to need oil; [Canada's natural resource minister], quoting the International Energy Agency, says that global energy demand is expected to grow by at least 35 percent over the next 20 years. The notion, pushed by environmentalists, that blocking the oil sands will spur green energy is delusion.

Second, energy independence is a long-sought national goal. We would no longer need OPEC, a cartel of countries with values, in many cases, antithetical to ours. Third, that oil is coming here anyway — by rail and boat, where spills are common, and via pipelines that are older, and hence less safe, than Keystone would be.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/op...unmuzzled.html
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Canada train blast

How about this? let them build it but no deals on tort immunity. Build it right, keep it maintained or face full damages. The problem is, they want to move the oil for their on profit without assuming the risk.
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Old 07-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #26
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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Source? - just a wild guess the debunkers might have their own agendas

Perhaps a quick refresher on the benefits of Keystone are in order. First, notwithstanding the development of alternative energy sources, the world is going to continue to need oil; [Canada's natural resource minister], quoting the International Energy Agency, says that global energy demand is expected to grow by at least 35 percent over the next 20 years. The notion, pushed by environmentalists, that blocking the oil sands will spur green energy is delusion.

Second, energy independence is a long-sought national goal. We would no longer need OPEC, a cartel of countries with values, in many cases, antithetical to ours. Third, that oil is coming here anyway — by rail and boat, where spills are common, and via pipelines that are older, and hence less safe, than Keystone would be.


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/op...unmuzzled.html
sure theirs two agenda's. one is people who care about the environment. the silly stupid bastards who are worried about our water being poisoned and what not...
and then you have the other agenda.. the people who are out to make huge profits ..
me personally , i've found that greedy, self serving fucks aren't prone to telling the truth if it affects the profit margin.
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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sure theirs two agenda's. one is people who care about the environment. the silly stupid bastards who are worried about our water being poisoned and what not...
and then you have the other agenda.. the people who are out to make huge profits ..
me personally , i've found that greedy, self serving fucks aren't prone to telling the truth if it affects the profit margin.
People who care about the global environment or just NIMBYs (not in my backyard)?

Get back to me when you give up your car to ride a bike and do not use electricity that is generated by coal, natural gas, or nuclear - in the best of all possible worlds everything would be powered by solar, hydro (although the fish might think otherwise), and wind (although the birds might think otherwise) - nobody lives in that world at the moment

Hydrocarbons are not going away - the question is the most cost effective way (which has to include environmental costs) of using them
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:33 PM   #28
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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People who care about the global environment or just NIMBYs (not in my backyard)?

Get back to me when you give up your car to ride a bike and do not use electricity that is generated by coal, natural gas, or nuclear - in the best of all possible worlds everything would be powered by solar, hydro (although the fish might think otherwise), and wind (although the birds might think otherwise) - nobody lives in that world at the moment

Hydrocarbons are not going away - the question is the most cost effective way (which has to include environmental costs) of using them
your missing the point dan... this is a CANADIAN oil company, that wants easy access to the gulf for their CANADIAN oil. why should US citizens be asked to absorb the risk , but yet will gain NOTHING from it.

Quote:
TransCanada only carries US$200 million in third party liability insurance for the Keystone. For comparison, cleanup costs for the 2010 accidental rupture of an Enbridge diluted bitumen pipeline on the Kalamazoo River in Michigan have exceeded $1 billion and continue to climb.
As with past pipeline and oil industry accidents, any additional costs and risks not covered by TransCanada will be borne by the American taxpayers.
http://ens-newswire.com/2013/07/08/k...-without-data/
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:39 PM   #29
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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your missing the point dan... this is a CANADIAN oil company, that wants easy access to the gulf for their CANADIAN oil. why should US citizens be asked to absorb the risk , but yet will gain NOTHING from it.


http://ens-newswire.com/2013/07/08/k...-without-data/
I guess I missed the memo where Canadians are going to be doing the construction and keep all the tax revenues while the U.S. refineries at the end of the pipeline will send all their profits back to Canada while only employing Canadians at the Gulf refineries

Construction of the 1,179-mile pipeline will require 9,000 skilled American workers. The project will provide jobs for welders, mechanics, electricians, pipefitters, laborers, safety coordinators, heavy equipment operators and other workers who rely on large construction projects for their livelihoods.

In addition to construction jobs, an estimated 7,000 U.S. jobs are being supported in manufacturing the steel pipe and the thousands of fittings, valves, pumps and control devices required for a major oil pipeline.

TransCanada has contracts with more than 50 suppliers across the U.S., including companies in Texas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, Maryland, New York, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Minnesota, Ohio, Arkansas, Kansas, California and Pennsylvania....

Construction and development of the Keystone XL and Gulf Coast Pipeline Projects is anticipated to generate $20 billion in economic impact in the United States, including $99 million in local government revenues and $486 million in state government revenues during construction.

The pipelines will also generate an estimated $5 billion in additional property taxes during their operational life.


http://keystone-xl.com/about/jobs-an...omic-benefits/

But no worries - those workers can go to business school and get jobs at Goldman Sachs while the state and local governments can just continue to do more with less

Let's just let Canada deal exclusively with China
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Old 07-08-2013, 05:51 PM   #30
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Default Re: Canada train blast

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I guess I missed the memo where Canadians are going to be doing the construction and keep all the tax revenues while the U.S. refineries at the end of the pipeline will send all their profits back to Canada while only employing Canadians at the Gulf refineries

Construction of the 1,179-mile pipeline will require 9,000 skilled American workers. The project will provide jobs for welders, mechanics, electricians, pipefitters, laborers, safety coordinators, heavy equipment operators and other workers who rely on large construction projects for their livelihoods.

In addition to construction jobs, an estimated 7,000 U.S. jobs are being supported in manufacturing the steel pipe and the thousands of fittings, valves, pumps and control devices required for a major oil pipeline.

TransCanada has contracts with more than 50 suppliers across the U.S., including companies in Texas, Missouri, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, Maryland, New York, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Minnesota, Ohio, Arkansas, Kansas, California and Pennsylvania....

Construction and development of the Keystone XL and Gulf Coast Pipeline Projects is anticipated to generate $20 billion in economic impact in the United States, including $99 million in local government revenues and $486 million in state government revenues during construction.

The pipelines will also generate an estimated $5 billion in additional property taxes during their operational life.


http://keystone-xl.com/about/jobs-an...omic-benefits/

But no worries - those workers can go to business school and get jobs at Goldman Sachs while the state and local governments can just continue to do more with less

Let's just let Canada deal exclusively with China
Ok dan you posted an article with stats from the "pro" pipeline camp or the "liars for profit" camp...other sources from the other side call it bullshit...

Quote:
FACT: Job Estimates Have Been Wildly Inflated

Exaggerated Figures Based On A "Flawed" Analysis Funded By TransCanada. TransCanada has claimed that the Keystone XL pipeline would "create 20,000 construction and manufacturing jobs in the U.S." as well as "118,000 spin-off jobs." These estimates are based on an analysis by the Perryman Group -- funded by TransCanada -- that independent analysts have called "dead wrong," "meaningless," "flawed and poorly documented." TransCanada has also been criticized for using the term "jobs" to refer to what is actually an estimate of "person-years of employment." [TransCanada, 10/6/11] [Media Matters, 1/26/12]
Revised TransCanada Estimates Are Much Lower. Media outlets are continuing to cite TransCanada's original job estimates for the entire length of the Keystone XL pipeline, even though the southern portion is already under construction. TransCanada is now saying that the northern portion of the pipeline will support 9,000 American jobs through early 2015, in addition to the 4,000 workers constructing the southern portion. [ABC News, 1/23/13]
State Department: Pipeline "Would Not Have A Significant Impact On Long-Term Employment." The State Department estimated in 2011 that the pipeline would create "5,000 to 6,000 direct construction jobs," but noted that the project "would not have a significant impact on long-term employment":
Regarding employment, the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline would likely create several thousand temporary jobs associated with construction; however, the project would not have a significant impact on long-term employment in the United States. While some reports have suggested there could be over 100,000 direct and indirect jobs created by the pipeline, this inflated number appears to be a misinterpretation of one of the economic analyses prepared on the pipeline. Based on the amount of money the applicant projects it would spend on labor in building the pipeline, and the number of construction crews likely to be used in constructing the pipeline, the final EIS estimated there would be approximately 5,000 to 6,000 direct construction jobs in the United States that would last for the two years that it would take to build the pipeline. [National Journal, 1/18/12]
Cornell University Report: Permanent U.S. Jobs Could Be "As Few As 50." A report by the Cornell University Global Labor Institute stated that the pipeline "will create no more than 2,500-4,650 temporary direct construction jobs for two years, according to TransCanada's own data supplied to the State Department." It estimated that "the new permanent US pipeline jobs in the US number as few as 50." The report also argued that the Perryman Group study ignored the negative consequences of the pipeline, which could lead to more jobs lost than would be created:
The industry-generated jobs data are highly questionable and ultimately misleading. But this is only part of the problem. These industry-generated data attempt only to tell the positive side of the KXL jobs story. There is evidence to suggest that the effects of KXL construction could very well lead to more jobs being lost than are created. In this section, we show four ways that jobs can be destroyed or prevented by KXL -- higher petroleum prices, environmental damage such as spills, the impact of emissions on health and climate instability, and the chilling effect KXL approval could have on the emerging green economy.
[...]
Put simply, KXL's job creation potential is relatively small, and could be completely outweighed by the project's potential to destroy jobs through rising fuel costs, spill damage and clean up operations, air pollution and increased GHG emissions. [Cornell University Global Labor Institute, September 2011]
http://mediamatters.org/research/201...ed/192668#jobs
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