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Old 08-14-2013, 07:49 PM   #1
Joelbushbaum
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Default Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scored p

Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scored per game?




Who are the best QB's eight Qb's in football? Brady, Brees, Peyton
Manning, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Eli Manning, Rodgers, and Stafford, not
necessarily in this order! I could kick Stafford out, and put Flacco in, but doing that would help the case study, so I won't!




Last year Ben had a pro bowl WR in Wallace, a Pro Bowl TE in Miller, and a
very good #2 WR in Brown ( who made the pro bowl as a return man ). These are
very good weapons. I thought to myself, does a franchise QB with two pro
bowl receivers automatically equate to a high ranking offense that




1 ) Scored a lot of points.



and



2 ) Gained a lot of yards?





In terms of yard gained, all of the other QB's were in the top half, and
five of other seven were in the top ten. Us? Rated below average at
21st.




In terms of points scored, six of the other seven " franchise QB's " were
rated in the top seven! One was rated 17th. Us? Last again, at 22nd.




Conclusion: There is a high correlation to franchise QB's scoring a lot of
points, and netting a lot of yard. In 2011 under Ariens, we were a much more
respectable, being 12th in the NFL in terms of yards per game, with the same set
of skill players. Yet under Haley we fell hard to 21st?



So you see this dink and dunk offense is not one that is going to get you a
lot of points, and yards....even if you have one of the best QB's in the game as
we do, and he's flanked by a pro bowl WR, and TE. What a waste of talent. Oh, and Haley's play calling did not keep Ben healthy either, and some of the other QB's on the list also have OL issues.




Toggle on the below link to see the data and tell me what do you think?





http://www.nfl.com/stats/categ...POINTS_GAME_AVG
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:54 PM   #2
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

of course they don't take into consideration that we had most of our starting OL injured, our top RB injured, our #2 rb fatter than shit who couldn't run more than 2 plays before needing a break, our #1 wr taking up space and half assing 80% of plays, and our QB had a life threatening injury.

offense looked good before all the above happened. i ain't worried.
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Old 08-14-2013, 07:56 PM   #3
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

you've put a lot of thought into this post, I appreciate that! But I disagree with your conclusion on Haley's offense. Last year we had Wallace playing to not get hurt and an offensive line getting hurt, and a running game that did the other teams job for them (make us one-dimensional). It was the first season under Haley as a coordinator. I'd give them some time to work through it.
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:18 PM   #4
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

Quote:
Originally Posted by harrison'samonster View Post
you've put a lot of thought into this post, I appreciate that! But I disagree with your conclusion on Haley's offense. Last year we had Wallace playing to not get hurt and an offensive line getting hurt, and a running game that did the other teams job for them (make us one-dimensional). It was the first season under Haley as a coordinator. I'd give them some time to work through it.
Thanks. I have more on this post. We did not send or throw deep enough to Wallace put him in position on what he does best. In fact Haley limited some of Ben's best stuff, such as the no-huddle, and did not deploy 4 wr sets as often.

Ben is amazing on third down, but the lack of big plays, and the decline yards per catch of Wallace, Brown, Miller, and company tells the story.

Haley offense would have been great in the 1990's. These days trying to run the ball while seldom throwing passes on 1st and 2nd down 10 yards past the line of carriage makes the Lb's and safeties cheat up a bit, making it even hard to find lanes and space to run the ball.

Does Haley deserve another year? I would say this year and after that make a change if things are much better. I would take Airans back if given the option. We made a few super bowls in his offense. Airans by the way took the worst team in football, a rookie QB, and lesser skill players and out performed Haley.

-JB
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:18 PM   #5
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

Nice read.

With regard to Ben I would guess his PPG per season has probably been within a field goal variance or so most of his career regardless of the personnel, scheme or anything else.

He's a competitive game manager who knows how to win imo.

Not a knock, just an opinion.

I just don't think Ben is prone to lighting up the scoreboard.
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Old 08-14-2013, 09:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelbushbaum View Post
Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scored per game?




Who are the best QB's eight Qb's in football? Brady, Brees, Peyton
Manning, Roethlisberger, Ryan, Eli Manning, Rodgers, and Stafford, not
necessarily in this order! I could kick Stafford out, and put Flacco in, but doing that would help the case study, so I won't!




Last year Ben had a pro bowl WR in Wallace, a Pro Bowl TE in Miller, and a
very good #2 WR in Brown ( who made the pro bowl as a return man ). These are
very good weapons. I thought to myself, does a franchise QB with two pro
bowl receivers automatically equate to a high ranking offense that




1 ) Scored a lot of points.



and



2 ) Gained a lot of yards?





In terms of yard gained, all of the other QB's were in the top half, and
five of other seven were in the top ten. Us? Rated below average at
21st.




In terms of points scored, six of the other seven " franchise QB's " were
rated in the top seven! One was rated 17th. Us? Last again, at 22nd.




Conclusion: There is a high correlation to franchise QB's scoring a lot of
points, and netting a lot of yard. In 2011 under Ariens, we were a much more
respectable, being 12th in the NFL in terms of yards per game, with the same set
of skill players. Yet under Haley we fell hard to 21st?



So you see this dink and dunk offense is not one that is going to get you a
lot of points, and yards....even if you have one of the best QB's in the game as
we do, and he's flanked by a pro bowl WR, and TE. What a waste of talent. Oh, and Haley's play calling did not keep Ben healthy either, and some of the other QB's on the list also have OL issues.




Toggle on the below link to see the data and tell me what do you think?





http://www.nfl.com/stats/categ...POINTS_GAME_AVG
How come when you dogged Haley's offense for gaining less yes than Arians you forgot to mention Haley's offense scored more points. Another guy that doesn't realize the team that scores more points wins not the team that gets more yards
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:08 PM   #7
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb500ex View Post
How come when you dogged Haley's offense for gaining less yes than Arians you forgot to mention Haley's offense scored more points.

Another guy that doesn't realize the team that scores more points wins not the team that gets more yards
We scored more points but had problems when the games were on the line.
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Old 08-15-2013, 06:25 AM   #8
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joelbushbaum View Post
Thanks. I have more on this post. We did not send or throw deep enough to Wallace put him in position on what he does best. In fact Haley limited some of Ben's best stuff, such as the no-huddle, and did not deploy 4 wr sets as often.

Ben is amazing on third down, but the lack of big plays, and the decline yards per catch of Wallace, Brown, Miller, and company tells the story.

Haley offense would have been great in the 1990's. These days trying to run the ball while seldom throwing passes on 1st and 2nd down 10 yards past the line of carriage makes the Lb's and safeties cheat up a bit, making it even hard to find lanes and space to run the ball.

Does Haley deserve another year? I would say this year and after that make a change if things are much better. I would take Airans back if given the option. We made a few super bowls in his offense. Airans by the way took the worst team in football, a rookie QB, and lesser skill players and out performed Haley.

-JB
I got to disagree. We DID throw to Wallace last year, a lot. The problem was most of the time he showed little interest in contact of any sort and was not open as often. If you want to pull a stat, pull a comparative of times Wallace was targeted to completions. It should be quite reveling.


With Wallace not being exactly the most dependable downfield option, just who are you expecting to throw to deep? Miller had a career year before his injury, Brown missed 3 games, and so did Ben, who was clearly not the same after his return. Cotchery's day as a downfield threat ended about a decade ago, and Burress, was obviously not ready to play ball.

As was mentioned before, the Oline injury situation was a major factor. To expect any offensive continuity while playing your 4th best option at RT, replacing any lineman with Legurski, ( who was horrible when he played guard, and bad at center) is absurd.

After one season, especially last season, trying to draw a comparison of the relative merits over Arians and Haley's offense is absurd as well. Truth be told, our relative placement of offense compared to the rest of the league was about the same as it was with Arians, WITH all of the injuries, and a malcontented X WR included.

For all of you saying " Look at what Arians did in Indy last year" folks, keep in mind not only did Indy play the easiest schedule in the NFL last year, having finished a 1-13 campaign the year prior, their offensive output was not that great either. Add to that, as usual Arians' OB ,Luck, was beaten to a pulp as the NFL's leader in taking sacks.

Can you imaging what our O would have looked like with Arians running the show, and having to deal with the crap we had last year? Ben would have been dead after about week 5, and John Parker Wilson ( or someone like him) would have been taking snaps by week 10 until his certain demise shortly after.
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Old 08-15-2013, 07:44 AM   #9
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

I thought the team that controlled the clock won the game!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb500ex View Post
How come when you dogged Haley's offense for gaining less yes than Arians you forgot to mention Haley's offense scored more points. Another guy that doesn't realize the team that scores more points wins not the team that gets more yards
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Old 08-15-2013, 02:07 PM   #10
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Default Re: Franchise QB's. Is there a correlation of offensive yards gained and points scor

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: For all of you saying " Look at what Arians did in Indy last year" folks, keep in mind not only did Indy play the easiest schedule in the NFL last year, having finished a 1-13 campaign the year prior, their offensive output was not that great either.
There isn't really an "easiest" schedule anymore since everything except 2 games is division based. And the Colts really had a middle-of-the-pack schedule, though they only had 2 quality wins IMO (Packers and Texans).

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/56896/2012-nfl-strength-of-schedule
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